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  #1  
Old 07-10-2019, 02:41 PM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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Default Godin Multiac Doyle Dykes Signature Edition

I just got a good deal on a Godin Multiac Doyle Dykes Signature Edition on eBay. Iím posting about this here because this guitar really is all about amplification.

The specs are basically that it is chambered Godin Multiac with a LR Baggs LB6 transducer, a Lyric mic in the main chamber, three band EQ, pickup and mic levels, and an LR Baggs Session DI preamp built in.

Of course it sounds incredible on the demos where Doyle Dykes is playing it, but so would a plastic guitar from Walmart. The sound quality itself though in the online demos (both with him and other players) is really very nice: about as good as an amplified guitar can sound.

Iíve been very happy with my Martin with a Schertler AG6/S-Mic pickup except for two things:

1) It feeds back on lousy sound systems if I turn the mic up very much.
2) It is too noisy to record with. I donít notice it at all live, but when I record, I have to run it through iZotope RX to get rid of the noise.

The Godin Doyle Dykes Signature Multiac sounds very much like a good guitar with an LR Baggs Anthem, but it should be a heck of a lot more feedback resistant live even with the mic turned up. The multi-band compression and the tube-like overdrive sound exquisite in the demos.

Does anyone else here have experience with this particular model?

Last edited by lkingston; 07-10-2019 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:59 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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I don't have any experience with the Doyle Dykes Multiac, but I'm looking forward to reading your impressions of the instrument's amplified sound.

I'm specifically wondering how well the Lyric mic will blend with the LB6, considering that the LB6's transducer elements for the 'b' string and the high 'e' string are wired to be 180 degrees out of phase with the other four elements.

I do have some experience with the Baggs Lyric, and have found that it can sound very good under certain circumstances. I'm just wondering how well it will blend with an LB6. In theory, at least, it seems like there could be problems. Albeit, the Doyle Dykes demo sounds great (as you've observed).
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:18 AM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
I don't have any experience with the Doyle Dykes Multiac, but I'm looking forward to reading your impressions of the instrument's amplified sound.

I'm specifically wondering how well the Lyric mic will blend with the LB6, considering that the LB6's transducer elements for the 'b' string and the high 'e' string are wired to be 180 degrees out of phase with the other four elements.

I do have some experience with the Baggs Lyric, and have found that it can sound very good under certain circumstances. I'm just wondering how well it will blend with an LB6. In theory, at least, it seems like there could be problems. Albeit, the Doyle Dykes demo sounds great (as you've observed).
The LB6 historically blends well with mics and Baggs has told me that it actually blends pretty well with most second sources and that you'd have to really focus to hear any phase issues on the G & B strings. Of course, YMMV but I use the LB6 in a Baggs Dual Source and phase isn't an issue on the treble strings. Of course, I test the phase between the mic and LB6 in every live setting but nothing specific to the elements. I also blended it with a PUTW #54 and didn't have any phase problems. Phil Keaggy also uses a LB6 Dual Source (actually Micro Duet II) and David Wilcox, Eric Johnson, and James Nash have mixed it w/mics with great outcomes.

I think the issue I've heard of phase relationships being an issue w/the LB6 is when a player uses MULTIPLE sources and phase becomes a bit of an issue regardless but more so with the LB6. Dave Wilcox was using the LB6 for its bass response in his Olsons, along with a Sunrise, McIntyre Feather, and Joe Mills mic and landed up replacing the LB6 with a RMC pickup, again, due to phase issues. Phil Keaggy used a LB6 and a Fender internal mic mixed with a Sunrise and landed up removing the Sunrise as he was getting phasing issues mixing the three. He now just uses an old Micro Duet II Classic (Barn Door preamp that mixes LB6 and internal condensor mic) in his main Olson and Charis guitars.

I also remember Doug Young saying he once asked Baggs why they didn't try the LB6 in the Anthem (bc the Element kinda sucks on its own) and they said that it wasn't compatible in a crossover circuit format because of the mixed phase elements. I don't think mixing it with the Lyric in a standard stereo or mono setup is normally an issue, nor would Baggs install it as a standard system if it were.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:15 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Thanks for the interesting and very extensive response, MrEric. I recall that you are an LB6 user yourself and have no doubt studied the issue of blending the LB6 with other sources.

I've personally used the LB6 in several guitars and am aware that it has several good qualities (excellent feedback rejection, excellent string balance, good string isolation). I never tried to blend the LB6 with another source, however. I lost interest in the LB6 about the time that the iMix system was introduced and I recall that the Baggs folks noted at the time that the Element UST blends better with the iBeam than the LB6 does. That was likely where I originally got the idea that the LB6 wasn't the best in-saddle pickup or undersaddle pickup for blending with a second source. I've also noticed, however, that there's plenty of anecdotal evidence around to support the claim that the LB6 can indeed blend pretty well with a second source. My curiosity on the subject continues.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:32 PM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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Default Godin Multiac Doyle Dykes Signature Edition

I do know from reading up on this that the whole LB6/Lyric thing was put together by Lloyd Baggs himself, so he may easily have done things like wired the top two strings in phase so that it would better combine with the mic and a custom crossover curve. I expect that because of his involvement, the system will be much better than one I would cobble together myself.

Like I said before, I am extremely happy with the sound of my Schertler AG6/S-mic pickup (in a Martin)...when I use it with my own Schertler Roy Amp. When I use it at open mics or with house sound systems where someone else is running the sound however, I wish I had more control. If the sound is at all boxy, I end up dialing out the mic most of the way and then it just sounds like a regular magnetic soundhole pickup.

The Doyle Dykes Mulitiac should be a heck of a lot less prone to feedback with itís sealed top and chambered (rather than full bodied) construction. Plus it has the EQ and high quality Session DI preamp built in. It is tweak-able and I expect it to sound very good even on the worst house sound systems. This is a big deal because most of my gigs are with a house PA.

What is really cool about this particular guitar is that it has been designed especially for fingerstyle players. I play fingerstyle exclusively, and the idea that one of the best fingerstyle players in the world collaborated with one of the best guitar makers and one of the best pickup makers to make a guitar specifically for people who play fingerstyle live is such a great thing!

Last edited by lkingston; 07-11-2019 at 01:21 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07-11-2019, 01:36 PM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
Thanks for the interesting and very extensive response, MrEric. I recall that you are an LB6 user yourself and have no doubt studied the issue of blending the LB6 with other sources.

I've personally used the LB6 in several guitars and am aware that it has several good qualities (excellent feedback rejection, excellent string balance, good string isolation). I never tried to blend the LB6 with another source, however. I lost interest in the LB6 about the time that the iMix system was introduced and I recall that the Baggs folks noted at the time that the Element UST blends better with the iBeam than the LB6 does. That was likely where I originally got the idea that the LB6 wasn't the best in-saddle pickup or undersaddle pickup for blending with a second source. I've also noticed, however, that there's plenty of anecdotal evidence around to support the claim that the LB6 can indeed blend pretty well with a second source. My curiosity on the subject continues.
Yeah, the LB6 is kind of an acquired taste and one you have to sorta commit to. I think that's why it's kind of a "lifestyle" pickup that certain pickers, like Doyle, Chuck Cannon, Janis Ian, and James Taylor, swear by. I agree that it's pretty feedback resistant and well-balanced and it also has a great low-end and less midrange quack and honk than a standard undersaddle. But it's not as easy of a drop-in as the Element and the mixed phase crystals will provide issues in complicated, multi-source, setups. And per Baggs, there are some pickups that it WILL NOT play nice with and they probably know what those are. I like it in the arrangement of the Dual Source but I'd like to see the Doyle LB6/Lyric/Session system available for sale as well.

That said, the fact that it works well for me does not stop me from considering new toys. For some reason, I'm currently considering replacing it with a Dimarzio Black Angel Mag & Piezo. There's really no good reason to but it looks tempting and I've liked the sound. Someone, talk me out of it.
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  #7  
Old 07-11-2019, 01:41 PM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkingston View Post
I do know from reading up on this that the whole LB6/Lyric thing was put together by Lloyd Baggs himself, so he may easily have done things like wired the top two strings in phase so that it would better combine with the mic and a custom crossover curve. I expect that because of his involvement, the system will be much better than one I would cobble together myself.
I think the reason it works with no phasing issues is that it's wired as a mono blend and not a cross-over circuit, like the Anthem. The LB6 mixes with mics fine but the function of having it dedicated to select frequencies via on-board circuit, like in the Anthem, probably doesn't work with its mixed phase crystals. But, who knows.

I've been really interested in trying the Doyle Godin and I think I'd love to see that LB6/Lyric/Onboard Session preamp system available as a retrofit install.
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Baggs Venue DI
Baggs Para DI
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  #8  
Old 07-11-2019, 02:00 PM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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Default Godin Multiac Doyle Dykes Signature Edition

Two more reasons why I was interested in this guitar:

1) I love the idea of a guitar that feels and plays like an electric but sounds like a fine acoustic. I practice enough that finger strain and pain is an issue. Since this is an amplified only guitar and I donít need to worry about it projecting acoustically, I can string it with really light strings which should be easier on my fingers through long gigs and practice sessions.

2) I love the idea of a quieter guitar for practicing. I feel for my wife when I am practicing, especially when I am learning new tunes or complicated song sections.

Last edited by lkingston; 07-11-2019 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:57 PM
The Growler The Growler is offline
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I have this guitar and I've not recorded with it yet, but have played it out and had no issues including feedback. I love the Baggs system that it has. Lots of flexibility and it sounds great. It's a great guitar and I love the headstock. I'm not a fan of slotted headstocks and every other multiac has one. Doyle doesn't like them for his "behind the nut" bends and that was one of his requirements in the design.

lkingston is correct: Lloyd did design this pickup system. He has worked with Doyle before and they are good friends. He also looked forward to working with Robert again on this guitar.

Enjoy yours!
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Old 07-12-2019, 05:55 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Thanks to everyone for all the good info on this model. There's much food for thought here, especially for those of us who are on the lookout for a good sounding and trouble-free instrument which can accommodate bare-fingered picking in a noisy setting.

I was unaware that Lloyd Baggs had personally designed the pickup system. There may well be some proprietary information about the design which we'll never be privy to.
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:11 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrErikJ View Post

That said, the fact that it works well for me does not stop me from considering new toys. For some reason, I'm currently considering replacing it with a Dimarzio Black Angel Mag & Piezo. There's really no good reason to but it looks tempting and I've liked the sound. Someone, talk me out of it.
FWIW, I'm not a fan of the Shadow Nano-Flex UST which is paired with the Angel. I actually tried the DiMarzio version of the Nano-Flex (Nano-Flex with DiMarzio designed preamp) during a period when I'd sent a guitar's Anthem system back to Baggs for repair. (Baggs support is terrific.) I found the pickup to be excessively boomy in the mid lows, and pretty harsh sounding once the boominess was removed. The DTAR Wavelength system which I temporarily replaced it with (while still waiting for the Anthem's return) was much better balanced and less feedback prone in the same guitar.

I've also had plenty of trouble, as a soundman, with Nano-Flex equipped Epiphones. Excessive boominess and a vulnerability to feedback has been a common problem with those guitars.
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:54 AM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
...There's much food for thought here, especially for those of us who are on the lookout for a good sounding and trouble-free instrument which can accommodate bare-fingered picking in a noisy setting...
That is me exactly! No nails fingerstyle with the amp behind me and a loud room! I want as simple a setup as possible while still getting the best possible sound.
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:02 AM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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I haven't played the Doyle Dykes Multiac but I have played all of the normal versions and they are certainly nice guitars for the stage. Also, like you said, they provide enough unplugged volume to practice but not annoy the wife. I would have to imagine that the Doyle Dykes version would be a cut above the rest. Doyle is an amazing musician and it certainly sounds like Doyle, Godin and Baggs combined to create a great stage guitar. I listened to the demos on YouTube and they sound really good. I always wanted a multiac, maybe one day I will have one.
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:33 AM
JStotes JStotes is offline
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I have one of these. I bought it to have a "plug and play" guitar to take out to open mics, etc. and also to use in a band setting. It works well in both.

I have a couple options I use for set-ups. I can either plug straight into my Bose S1, Schertler JAM 150, or into the FOH. Depending on the venue and sound requirements, I have a plain DI, a Sunnaudio Stage, or a Zoom A3 (recent model) and they all work very well with the DD Sig.

Now, it doesn't sound like my Outlaw with an Edwina, or like My Dazzo equipped 910 through the Sunnaudio Stage. It's not supposed to.
It does offer a very usable "acoustic" sound that is very easy to connect to almost any system and is resistant to feedback.

The onboard controls are very convenient and work as designed. I usually play with the under-saddle carrying most of the sound with just a hint of the Lyric to round it out and warm it up a bit. I don't care much for the "Session" effect.

Overall, I'm pleased with the guitar. I don't play out as much as I used to, but when I do, it's a nice option. I think it's best application, for me, is in a band setting.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:01 AM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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Default Godin Multiac Doyle Dykes Signature Edition

The only negative thing is that I'm out of town next week, so my wife will see it arrive. According to her I should be selling guitars, not buying another one. I won't do my regular "you don't remember this guitar? It's one of my favorites. See the little scratches? No it's not new..."!

Kind of like this (but with a far lower level of skill)!

https://youtu.be/RXh7FTDVvj4
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