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Old 07-01-2019, 07:45 AM
Guitarplayer_PR Guitarplayer_PR is offline
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Default The virtues of pinless bridges.

Ovation, Takamine, Lowden, etc. Many, if not all of them, have pinless bridges. Do you find advantages of having pinless bridge guitars besides changing strings?
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:05 AM
tadol tadol is offline
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I’ll start by admitting I do not currently own any pinless bridge guitars, but I have in the past - and there are a few reasons that I don’t -

Stringing them up, I’d be concerned about the strings slowly enlarging the holes when pulled thru the bridge. I’d be concerned about the ball ends banging on the top. The pure shear force on the glue joint between top and bridge worries me (I’ve seen pinned bridges where the glue has failed, and only the pins and string end on the bridge plate have prevented major damage). And like a pinned bridge with all its holes aligned, the potential for cracking thru the series of holes is a little bit of a concern.

I know its an interesting look, but I’m not convinced that the design is any real improvement over the pinned bridge.
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:10 AM
cmac cmac is offline
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I have guitars of each type and I find no advantages to me at all. They make string changes more fiddly and maintenance is harder since I can't just tune down the strings and take them out at the bridge end to get access to the insides.

That's not to say that I have a problem with them - I don't. They are just less convenient in those two situations.

There may be intangible benefits that I'm not aware of, but there are many fine guitars with pinless bridges and many with regular pinned bridgess so I don't see a compelling reason to go one way or another.

(It does, though, exclude me from the angst of worrying if my bridge pins are made of the right stuff... )
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:16 AM
tadol tadol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac View Post
(It does, though, exclude me from the angst of worrying if my bridge pins are made of the right stuff... )
Ok - You have identified one real virtue -
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:18 AM
Lillis Lillis is offline
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Great...now I’m paranoid about my new Breedlove that I was enjoying so much.
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:01 AM
gitarro gitarro is offline
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For performers supposedly they will feel assured a bridge pin doesnt go flying into the crowd if a string snaps if the guitar has a pinless bridge.

Does a painless bridge put more pulling force on a bridge and thus increase the risk of bridge failure or movement in the future?
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:18 AM
cmac cmac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gitarro View Post
For performers supposedly they will feel assured a bridge pin doesnt go flying into the crowd if a string snaps if the guitar has a pinless bridge.
Hmm. I don't see this as a real thing - if the pins were going to fly out then I think they would do so while the string is under tension, rather than when all that tension disappeared.

On the other hand, if a string breaks on a pinless bridge then it's a matter of a couple of seconds to pull the ball end out of there and then carry on playing (assuming the guitar is still more or less in tune.) No tight pins to wrestle with.

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Originally Posted by gitarro View Post
Does a painless bridge put more pulling force on a bridge and thus increase the risk of bridge failure or movement in the future?
Yes, there's more pulling force on the bridge because a pinned bridge has the strings anchored against the bridge plate underneath the top. On the other hand, the pinless bridge has a much better glueing surface since there are no holes for the pins. More surface area, but also it's a continuous surface area, so the glue joint should be stronger. Really that is down the builder though.

On the subject of pulling force, since the force of the pull on a pinned bridge is more 'up and over' (i.e. the bridge translates the pull from along the length of the guitar to one going from back to front through the top) then possibly there's more risk of a belly forming behind the bridge over time. But I'm no mechanical engineer so I could be totally wrong on that one.
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:26 AM
bufflehead bufflehead is offline
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I do a lot of palm muting, and the pinless bridge on my Breedlove facilitates that by getting the pins out of the way. I'm in favor of anything that lightens a guitar up, and although the ebony pins on my other guitars don't weigh that much, the bridge is an area where I especially don't want excess weight.
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:31 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR View Post
Ovation, Takamine, Lowden, etc. Many, if not all of them, have pinless bridges. Do you find advantages of having pinless bridge guitars besides changing strings?
I own guitars with both and my first steel string was an Ovation so my experience with a pinless bridge goes back much farther than my experience with a pinned bridge guitar. String changes are definitely faster on the pinless bridge since you don't have to pull pins or worry about pins unseating themselves while you tune up. But that difference isn't so great that either bridge would sway me one way or another. I like a guitar or I don't. The bridge, whether pinned or pinless, doesn't really play into that.

Worries about the structural viability of pinless bridges are, imo, baseless. If there was any merit to that concern, we wouldn't see the design in long term use by so many makers.
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:35 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Hi, I've always thought that pins in bridges were a less than ideal piece of engineering - especially as the ball ends slowly eat into the bridgeplate.

Harmony Sovereigns used to have pinless bridges too.
Trouble is I'm too traditionally minded so they don't look "right" to me.

"If it doesn't look like a Martin, Gibson, National or dobro - it doesn't look right!" (that's me).
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Old 07-01-2019, 10:00 AM
Dustinfurlow Dustinfurlow is offline
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Before I commissioned a build with Marc Beneteau I asked him about pretty much every upgradable feature he offered which I didn't have experienced with. When asking why Don Ross prefers pinless bridges he said that it enables him to change a string with minimal fuss if one breaks on stage...it will take half the time to change it. As a modern solo fingerstylist he changes tunings often, dropping and raising the pitch several times throughout a set.

I don't practice modern fingerstyle tunes on my Larrivee's for that reason, tuning up and down frequently will inevitably cause a bridge pin to go flying from a string breaking (usually happens when tuning down, believe it or not) so I personally always prefer pinless when looking at a new guitar purchase. Even if the pin doesn't go flying, you then have to worry about getting the tight pin out, which is just a pain if you're onstage and don't have the luxury of bringing a second guitar, which many don't.

If you just hangout in standard or drop D all the time I wouldn't see any point in seeking one out, as you probably won't have to worry about losing a pin on stage.
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:52 AM
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JayBee1404 JayBee1404 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadol View Post
Stringing them up, I’d be concerned about the strings slowly enlarging the holes when pulled thru the bridge.
I’ve had my Lowden O-25 seventeen years. The string-holes are unchanged since it was brand-new. No change in the sizes of the holes whatsoever. I’ve seen many pin-bridges with pin-holes which have grown wider through pins being pushed hard into them over the years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tadol View Post
I’d be concerned about the ball ends banging on the top.
All it needs is a piece of card or an envelope placed behind the bridge to prevent it happening. A very simple precaution. I have a leather piece shaped for the bridge which I bought from Blue Dog Guitars in Vancouver BC...

FF65356F-ADF9-4265-9BDD-4F8133CA3F51.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by tadol View Post
The pure shear force on the glue joint between top and bridge worries me (I’ve seen pinned bridges where the glue has failed, and only the pins and string end on the bridge plate have prevented major damage).
I’ve seen painless bridges which have been perfectly re-glued, exactly the same as a pin-bridge would need to be glued. And I’ve seen far more pin-bridges that have lifted than pinless bridges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tadol View Post
And like a pinned bridge with all its holes aligned, the potential for cracking thru the series of holes is a little bit of a concern.
I’ve been around pinless Lowden bridges for over twenty years, and I’ve never seen that happen, or even heard of it happening. I’ve seen a number of pin-bridges with a crack along the pin-line, especially those where the pins align to the front edge of the bridge (e.g. Martin) rather than to the saddle (e.g. Collings).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tadol View Post
I know its an interesting look, but I’m not convinced that the design is any real improvement over the pinned bridge.
I don’t believe that the pinless bridge was a big factor in most owners’ choice Of a guitar with that feature - I’m sure that there are many other factors which figure more strongly in the decision, such as the sound of the guitar, build quality, fit & finish, yadda yadda. I don’t regard either type as being a superior design to the other, they both work equally well in their own ways.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.
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Last edited by JayBee1404; 07-01-2019 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:02 PM
frankhond frankhond is offline
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In the case of Lowden the pinless bridge is a result of the bracing design. A regular bridge would not coexist with this bracing due to the necessary bridge plate.

The two Lowdens that passed my hands so far never had any problems. I know there have been a few Lowdens where the bridge came unglued but there are also plenty of non-Lowdens with all kinds of bridge problems. All and all I don’t think it’s an issue either way from a construction standpoint.

From a sound standpoint the Lowdens have a unique voice that many players love. So why not.
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:03 PM
AZ Slacker AZ Slacker is offline
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Default Pinless bridge

I have 3 pinless bridge guitars, all Baraniks. The oldest is a 2001 build. All rock solid, totally stable bridges. They do make string changing quicker. I asked Mike B. if there were any tonal advantages. He seemed to indicate that the pinless would be his bridge of choice for the Celtic songs I fingerpick; more sustain. I do like very much what I hear from these guitars.

AZ
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:29 PM
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* I've owned two Lowden's since the 90's and have preferred the pinless bridge design ever since and thus have owned several MIJ Takamines with pinless bridges.

** Not only do both Lowden and Takamine have split saddles in this design and have excellent intonation, I also like the string changing aspect as I change them every 3 to 4 shows. In addition I also like the more direct string to bridge connection...in Takamine's case that connection further translates in the Palathetic pickup design, whereas my Lowden used a simple OEM Matrix UST. IMHO, I feel and enjoy the continuity of string vibration in both Lowden and Takamine from tuner thru their dovetail neck joint to the pinless bridge, to the soundboard; a big virtue for me!

*** Lowden and Takamine may have been on to something tonally and structurally, tho I don't know of any science behind it, I just know I prefer it. That said, I do have a Martin D18 and love it but I'm not a fan of bridge pins much anymore.

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