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RainSong RE-Fret (UPDATE)
It's all done!
This is a review of a recent re-fret I had done on my Carbon Fiber RainSong guitar. RainSong uses nickel frets as their standard. I purchased the guitar new from Specialty Guitars Plus in Charlottesville, VA in 2012. After about five years, the frets were in bad need of leveling and dressing. 2 years after that they were beyond another re-leveling and needed replacing. I opted for the Sintoms Ringing Stainless steel .109(2.7mm) x .038(.96mm). I purchased them from Philadelphia Luthier Tools & Supplies.(thank you jonfields45 for that info) Stainless is harder and shouldn't wear as fast as the nickel. My luthier Bishop Stearn in Gordonsville VA did the replacement. It was his first time using SS and his first time re-fretting a Carbon Fiber guitar. It was a 2 day turn-a-round and he said it was the easiest re-fret he's ever done. All total the cost of the re-fret was $192 As far as differences from the previous nickel frets; The guitar sounds maybe a little brighter, and the sustain seems a little longer. Could be due to the new strings which are Martin Monel Custom lights. I play at least 10 hours a week and apparently have a strong left hand grip. If you are needing a re-fret, you might consider Stainless Steel.
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vANCe 1976 Martin D-28(original owner) 1992 Taylor 420(original owner) 2012 RainSong H DR 1000(original owner) 2011 Gretsch Anniversary Model(original owner) Mandolin- 1920's A-Style (unknown brand) Mandolin- Fender Mandostrat Banjo -2016 Gold Tone EBM-5+ Fender 2013- Strat |
#2
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Congratulations you made the right choice by going with stainless steel frets, sounds like you're quite happy. Rainsong should be using those by default on a carbon fiber guitar IMO. Thanks for sharing your experience.
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#3
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Good to hear that worked out for you! Stainless steel frets add one more level of "not having to fuss with" a nice carbon fiber guitar. That should give you many more years of happy playing!
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#4
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Vance,
Just so you know and you might check with Rainsong, carbon fiber has a galvanic reaction with stainless steel where stainless becomes the anode and CF is the cathode. I own an all carbon fiber sailboat with a carbon fiber mast and anytime you bolt stainless to carbon, we have to make sure the stainless is 316LSS and there is some type of barrier between the stainless and the carbon (epoxy, silicone sealant, etc.). If you don't do this with 316LSS, you get a stain that looks like rust but it does not pit. 304SS (lower nickel content) will pit. I'd like to do SS frets too but this is in the back of my mind. I'd be interested if you knew of this and had to take any precautions. Guitar sounds awesome in the video. Cheers, Bob
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Doerr Trinity 12 Fret 00 (Lutz/Maple) Edwinson Zephyr 13 Fret 00 (Adi/Coco) Froggy Bottom H-12 (Adi/EIR) Kostal 12 Fret OMC (German Spruce/Koa) Rainsong APSE 12 Fret (Carbon Fiber) Taylor 812ce-N 12 fret (Sitka/EIR Nylon) Last edited by SprintBob; 05-19-2019 at 11:48 AM. |
#5
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Depending on the type of stainless steel, there are some SSs that possibly can have reaction when in long contact with SS, but not all types.
https://www.corrosionpedia.com/galva...olymers/2/1556 Since there is likely a pretty large number of guitars with SS frets owned by forum members here, folk with Emeralds, CAs, & Blackbirds, hopefully we can collect some first hand experience how their guitars are faring. I know some of these guitars will be a good number of years old--plenty of time for anything to happen if it's going to. Does anyone have experience with any type of reaction with their SS frets that they can identify? Photos would be a plus. I'd be curious to know. |
#6
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#7
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Emerald fretboards have a top layer of polyester. So no worries there.
According to the page ac linked to fiber-glass mitigates galvanic corrosion. Does that mean Rainsongs of the hybrid series are safe? True, you cannot see it. Still, this is what the Rainsong website says: "Performance Shape Casting™, a process invented by RainSong, allows necks and fretboards to be cast simultaneously as a single graphite matrix."
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Emerald X30 Emerald X20 Nylon Emerald X7 Nylon Rainsong Smokey SMH Outdoor Guitalele Taylor 522e 12-fret ✝ Gitane DG-560 nylon ✝ Alhambra 3C CW Eastman AR910CE Recording King RM-991 tricone resonator Recording King RK-G25 6-string banjo Thomann Irish Bouzouki M1089 Last edited by mountainmaster; 05-17-2019 at 11:01 AM. |
#8
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Quote:
"Hello Vance, Thank you for contacting us. I have attached the specs for the frets we use. I'm not sure if you'll be able to find the exact same fret in stainless but I'm guessing you'll be able to find something close. I have spoken with a few RainSong players that have had stainless frets installed and they were happy with the result so my expectation is that it will work well for you too. Let me know if you have any other questions. Kind regards, Dave" I'm guessing they weren't concerned. The tone is a little different, but I like it so far. I play plugged in almost exclusively, so I can EQ in and out what I want. So far I have put more Bass in the balance than I was using.
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vANCe 1976 Martin D-28(original owner) 1992 Taylor 420(original owner) 2012 RainSong H DR 1000(original owner) 2011 Gretsch Anniversary Model(original owner) Mandolin- 1920's A-Style (unknown brand) Mandolin- Fender Mandostrat Banjo -2016 Gold Tone EBM-5+ Fender 2013- Strat Last edited by Finger Stylish; 05-17-2019 at 06:38 PM. Reason: Correction needed |
#9
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Quote:
From production photos of old for both CA and RainSong, the fretboard is not a CF composite (you would not want pointy fibers poking up out of the fretboard after a little sanding as part of a re-fret). The typical composite for guitar parts is phenolic or epoxy cut/fortified with paper or cloth fiber both of which would be soft if exposed. And of course recycled pulp and cloth fiber are a lot cheaper than phenolic or epoxy!
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator .wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE My duo's website and my email... [email protected] Jon Fields Last edited by jonfields45; 05-17-2019 at 01:32 PM. |
#10
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I always assumed it was something similar to the micarta fretboards that Martin uses. Composite, but not carbon fiber.
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#11
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Thanks Vance for that information. I'm sure your guitar is going to be fine, and putting this information up is gold. The question of refretting a CF guitar comes up on the AGF from time to time and this is now a point of real life reference. When I need to refret my guitars I will definitely go with stainless.
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Don't chase tone. Make tone. |
#12
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CF guitars are here to stay and every day we're all learning something new about them.
Sharing that new is an awesome responsibility and privilege. I appreciate all the comments and thoughtful questions that the CF owners always have. Cutting edge is what CF guitars and their owners are it seems!
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vANCe 1976 Martin D-28(original owner) 1992 Taylor 420(original owner) 2012 RainSong H DR 1000(original owner) 2011 Gretsch Anniversary Model(original owner) Mandolin- 1920's A-Style (unknown brand) Mandolin- Fender Mandostrat Banjo -2016 Gold Tone EBM-5+ Fender 2013- Strat |
#13
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Although I love my Emerald X20, I would also like to purchase a rainsong dreadnought at some point so this is good to know. Thanks!
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Check out my music on Spotify! https://open.spotify.com/artist/275clyPadaYxOvQ8wjBYl8? |
#14
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A jam buddy of mine has a classic DR-1000 and loves my X20 too. They are different animals, both very nice. The Rainsong is LOUD and BOLD. He was also quite taken by my X30, FWIW. If not for some recent medical expenses making money tight for him, he would be pestering me to sell it to him.
Back on topic, my 2001 built WS-1000 has seen a lot of play time, and I have a heavy left hand, but its frets are holding up nicely. It is not my only player, but has certainly seen a lot of logged play time. I have already decided that any re-fret work on any guitar will be stainless steel, or maybe EVO gold if my luthier objects to SS. |
#15
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Doerr Trinity 12 Fret 00 (Lutz/Maple) Edwinson Zephyr 13 Fret 00 (Adi/Coco) Froggy Bottom H-12 (Adi/EIR) Kostal 12 Fret OMC (German Spruce/Koa) Rainsong APSE 12 Fret (Carbon Fiber) Taylor 812ce-N 12 fret (Sitka/EIR Nylon) |