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  #1  
Old 05-01-2021, 10:51 AM
jklotz jklotz is offline
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Default How much can CF guitars withstand?

The local Rainsong dealer told me they don't recommend leaving them left in the trunk of a car during a hot day, not because of the CF, but because of the glue. This got me thinking; what is safe for our CF guitars? I'm not talking about keeping them from getting run over by a truck, I'm talking day to day transporting and gigging. Is there a point they get too hot or too cold? Can they get wet, like a gig where it starts raining? What precautions are necessary?

I ask because I was a little surprised by the dealers comments. I thought they were almost bullet proof. Am I wrong?
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Old 05-01-2021, 11:58 AM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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Hi.

There is a 2011 thread with reply from Ashvin at RainSong.

And a durability thread from April 5th this year.

Dave at RainSong is great responding to email and can give your their current recommendation.

My understanding is that well established CF guitar makers use aerospace grade materials that are extremely durable.

Cheers.
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Old 05-01-2021, 03:11 PM
MiG50 MiG50 is offline
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I'm not aware of any issues whatsoever with extreme cold, or with humidity (high or low). I do remember there being a lot of caution around extreme heat, like being stuck in a hot car trunk all day in direct sunlight in the hottest parts of the world. Even then, as that old thread discussed, there have been a lot of advances in the epoxy used in the carbon fiber process. I think I would still exercise a lot of caution with extreme *surface* temperature, since most carbon fiber guitars are either natural black, or at least dark colored. Setting them out in high heat AND direct sunlight would be moderately risky. In a case or gig bag, or inside a trunk, would be very safe. I'd expect a nylon gig bag or tolex-covered case to sustain damage long before the guitar inside would.

There have been examples of carbon fiber guitars taking a strong impact and being injured or destroyed, but they are definitely capable of taking more of a hit than a standard wooden acoustic. That said, they aren't indestructible. And they are a bit more expensive than some wooden guitars, which makes us a little more cautious about preserving them. I treat mine roughly as well as any of my wooden acoustics, except I don't worry as much about climate control, so they spend a lot more time out of cases and ready to play.
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Old 05-01-2021, 10:14 PM
perttime perttime is offline
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I remember a video that Emerald posted (or shared?) where they let a guitar sink to the bottom of a swimming pool, dove to retrieve it, emptiedit, and started playing.

You could damage something if you filled a guitar with water and then let it freeze. You can split rock by filling a cavity with water and letting it freeze.
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Last edited by perttime; 05-01-2021 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 05-02-2021, 02:27 AM
martinedwards martinedwards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jklotz View Post
don't recommend leaving them left in the trunk of a car during a hot day, not because of the CF, but because of the glue.
Rick Turner tells a story (and he tells it better than me) of the worlds first CF necked bass.

which he made.

and it was used on Fleetwood Mac's "the chain"

it was a prototype to test the theory, but never meant to be a long term thing.

it was made with 1 hour epoxy

John McVie Loved it and took it on the road.

where, somewhere like Arizona or Nevada it was sitting in it's case in direct sunlight.

and the epoxy softened and the bass disintegrated in its case.

Rick certainly learned from that, I hope other builders did too!
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:27 AM
_zedagive _zedagive is offline
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This much:



....but not this much:

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Old 05-02-2021, 11:46 AM
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Guitars made from carbon fiber are much more resistant to changes in temperature and humidity than guitars made from wood, and that should apply to everyday gigging and transporting. It also allows us to leave our CF guitars out on their stands year-round where they remain very accessible for playing. If it's hot outside and I'm transporting one of my Rainsongs, chances are the air conditioner is on so the guitar isn't exposed to extreme temperatures. If I'm on a multi-day trip, the guitar goes inside with me at night. If I play it outside and it's too hot to touch, I wouldn't want to play it anyway and it goes inside to cool off. I've got a bunch of money tied up in my guitars and take reasonable care of them. I really don't plan to use them as part of an experiment to determine what the extreme limits of their durability are...
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Old 05-02-2021, 02:51 PM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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Videos of CF guitar abuse =>https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...of CF guitars.


Epoxy CF is production cured at 250-350*F.

High temp adhesive is available for CF fabrication. Example is Huntsman Alderite with almost 400*F usability limit.

My understanding is that hot cars in mid summer sun can reach 140-160*F or so.

Which means useful high temp materials are available to savvy CF guitar makers.


Ashwin Coomar at RainSong answered the 2011 query thread.

Got a RainSong to endure hot vehicles while sight seeing on rod trips. No road trips yet but I'm confident will be OK.

Cheers
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Old 05-02-2021, 04:01 PM
steelvibe steelvibe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casualmusic View Post
Videos of CF guitar abuse =>https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...of CF guitars.


Epoxy CF is production cured at 250-350*F.

High temp adhesive is available for CF fabrication. Example is Huntsman Alderite with almost 400*F usability limit.

My understanding is that hot cars in mid summer sun can reach 140-160*F or so.

Which means useful high temp materials are available to savvy CF guitar makers.


Ashwin Coomar at RainSong answered the 2011 query thread.

Got a RainSong to endure hot vehicles while sight seeing on rod trips. No road trips yet but I'm confident will be OK.

Cheers
You will be fine- I've done it. The only thing you need to worry about is playing a black guitar in direct sunlight (they can get uncomfortably hot to the touch)...but maybe you are even safer because your RainSong is not black.
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Old 05-02-2021, 10:42 PM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelvibe View Post
You will be fine- I've done it. The only thing you need to worry about is playing a black guitar in direct sunlight (they can get uncomfortably hot to the touch)...but maybe you are even safer because your RainSong is not black.
Thanks for confirmation. The RainSong travels in a tan colour taylor gig bag. I like to play in the shade under trees or my portable inexpensive 10'x10' canopy that folds into a 10"x10"x54" carry bag. The canopy is the same as used by vendors at festivals.
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  #11  
Old 05-03-2021, 12:35 AM
douglasfan1 douglasfan1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casualmusic View Post
Videos of CF guitar abuse =>https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...of CF guitars.


Epoxy CF is production cured at 250-350*F.

High temp adhesive is available for CF fabrication. Example is Huntsman Alderite with almost 400*F usability limit.

My understanding is that hot cars in mid summer sun can reach 140-160*F or so.

Which means useful high temp materials are available to savvy CF guitar makers.


Ashwin Coomar at RainSong answered the 2011 query thread.

Got a RainSong to endure hot vehicles while sight seeing on rod trips. No road trips yet but I'm confident will be OK.

Cheers
Remember frets are stick in with glue, it will be losen out if the temperature go up to 70-80 degree celsius even though CF can withstand it.
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  #12  
Old 05-11-2021, 01:25 AM
byudzai byudzai is offline
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I left a McPherson touring in my trunk (white car) in over 100 degree heat for five days once. it was fine.
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Old 05-17-2021, 01:23 AM
hatamoto hatamoto is offline
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A year ago, I sent some of my belongings through sea freight (LCL cargo). It took about 3 months total. My Rainsong was included in the cargo inside a Hiscox case. Not sure how hot it can get inside the vessel, but I asked my shipping manager about it and he said it can get quite hot (30+C, 90+F).

I wrapped my Hiscox case with brown packaging paper and topped it off with bubble wraps while my guitar was cushioned with socks and shirts since the case wasn't even built for that. I can imagine that heat will more or less penetrate 3 months in transit.

My guitar came out fine.
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Old 05-17-2021, 04:06 PM
Villamarzia Villamarzia is offline
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As a rule of thumb, avoid doing something to a CF guitar that would probably be fatal if it was done to you. Should be easy to comply.
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Old 05-27-2021, 06:10 AM
Goodallboy Goodallboy is offline
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A heavy (for plastic), 16 oz. glass fell from our RV’s upper cabinet storage (about 4 ft.) and landed base down on the face of my X30. It bounced up and landed beside the guitar before I had time to react.

I was in worse condition after seeing it than the guitar was. Not a mark.
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