#16
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The guitars are supposed to have final set-up done by the dealer, but with 80,000 guitars sold and many sold on-line that is no longer possible to police. The better dealers used to set up the guitars for the individual buyer as they historically came with higher Bluegrass action. Now they go through a PLEK so it’s less likely the dealers will set-up the guitar for each buyer. It’s a shame but nothing 3 minutes with a good 5 degree reamer won’t solve. I put solid pins in all my guitars so having the 5 degree reamer is a nice tool.
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#17
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What many luthiers do is to put a piece of masking tape around the circumference of their tapered reamer. They ream until the tape just touches the top edge of the hole, providing consistent, repeatable diameter and taper. The amount of wood removed is very small, typically about two or three rotations of the reamer. It takes 30 seconds per pin hole, if the appropriate size drill is used. Where it is more of an issue is with pins of natural materials (e.g. wood, bone....) that can vary in diameter from one pin to the next. |
#18
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#19
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Sounds pretty unequivocal to me.
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John Brook ‘Lamorna’ OM (European Spruce/EIR) (2019) Lowden F-23 (Red Cedar/Claro Walnut) (2017) Martin D-18 (2012) Martin HD-28V (2010) Fender Standard Strat (2017-MIM) Last edited by Kerbie; 06-17-2021 at 02:07 AM. |
#20
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and don't forget, this is how they make end pins too.
Sigh!
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OM-28 Marquis (2005) Kenny Hill Player (nylon) Gibson AJ (2012) Rogue Resonator (kindling) |
#21
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A few thoughts...
1). It works fine as is. 2) keeps cost and production time down. 3) bridge plates are doing just fine with a little care 4) for their intended function, no need for high-tolerance tapered fit. In fact, could make string change MUCH more difficult! Dont want to need a puller and mallet to remove pins! 5) ever give one too many twists on a reamer? Not an easy remedy for that one.
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Dave F ************* Martins Guilds Gibsons A few others 2020 macbook pro i5 8GB Scarlett 18i20 Reaper 7 |
#22
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For example, another large American guitar manufacturer has taken to making guitars with backs and sides of flat-sawn black walnut. Why? Not because black walnut is scarce or difficult to obtain quarter sawn. Given that quarter sawn materials for tops, backs and sides have a long established history of use in instrument making, what is the rational for abandoning it? Flat sawn walnut "works fine as is" and is "doing just fine with a little care"? Might be, might not be. As with bridge plate wear, it will be interesting to see if splitting backs and sides of flat sawn walnut become "common". Quote:
Last edited by charles Tauber; 06-16-2021 at 01:58 PM. |
#23
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As has been mentioned, the machine time for a tapered hole and a straight hole is identical—assuming an automated machine in drilling. Each tapered hole would be “identical.” Since the manufacturer uses injection molded pins, these are also close enough to identical to mean that no “final set-up hand reaming” would need to be done.
It’s not as if the borer lines up each hole and an operator pulls a lever to a set point. Or at least, it better not be, in 2021, for anyone that’s turning out hundreds of whatevers in a day. Tapered bits do cost substantially more than straight bits though. But even in ebony, a tool steel bit (not to mention carbide) would last through several hundred bridges before needing either replacement or sharpening. (Until I recently retired I owned a prototype shop, so am very familiar with tooling, spray booths, etc. Part of my 40 years of doing this also involved helping companies modify their designs and processes to allow for large scale manufacturing.) |
#24
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So with wood I would expect to change every couple of months. Just because of the principle of it. Cost is not that great.
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2007 Indiana Scout 2018 Indiana Madison Quilt Elite 2018 Takamine GJ72CE 12-String 2019 Takamine GD93 2022 Takamine GJ72CE 6-String 2022 Cort GA-QF CBB 1963 Gibson SG 2016 Kala uke Dean A style mandolin. (Year unknown) Lotus L80 (1984ish) Plus a few lower end I have had for years |
#25
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#26
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Yep, THIS!
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John Brook ‘Lamorna’ OM (European Spruce/EIR) (2019) Lowden F-23 (Red Cedar/Claro Walnut) (2017) Martin D-18 (2012) Martin HD-28V (2010) Fender Standard Strat (2017-MIM) |
#27
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Its purely a question of caring - if the “luthiers” on the assembly line cared, they’d work with management to figure this out, and even if there were some tiny increase in cost, it would indicate the pride and concern they had for their product. But maybe the accountants and management have final say in product quality and techniques allowed in their craftsmanship, basic cost vs quality, which should make you wonder where else they’ve cut corners -
We had tapered drill bits with stop collars made by Fuller decades ago for accurately sizing holes for wood screws - it ain’t rocket science -
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More than a few Santa Cruz’s, a few Sexauers, a Patterson, a Larrivee, a Cumpiano, and a Klepper!! |
#28
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__________________
2007 Indiana Scout 2018 Indiana Madison Quilt Elite 2018 Takamine GJ72CE 12-String 2019 Takamine GD93 2022 Takamine GJ72CE 6-String 2022 Cort GA-QF CBB 1963 Gibson SG 2016 Kala uke Dean A style mandolin. (Year unknown) Lotus L80 (1984ish) Plus a few lower end I have had for years |
#29
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I'm willing to admit -if need be- that I'm just "unaware", but I've been playing for 50 years and have had at least one guitar in my possession from "that certain builder" at all times during that period. I can't recall an issue with the pins or bridge, except a '73 D-18 that had the bridge misplaced...maybe I've just been otherwise lucky? I'm also not a "certain builder can do no wrong" person either but I'm feeling kinda in the dark on this.
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#30
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Why does a certain maker fit tapered pins to cylindrical holes?
Hey, if it's functionally identical then it's all the same to me. It just seemed odd that someone with the reputation that Martin has would make this design decision. I think it's not reason enough to avoid buying one, and there are good reasons why they are considered the benchmark, but I think this is one small aspect where they can live up to their well earned reputation better. I would pay the extra labor to have this part also handmade, from the factory.
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