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  #1  
Old 06-26-2020, 01:52 PM
Knives&Guitars Knives&Guitars is offline
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Default ANTICIPATION=Schoeps have arrived

My Stereo pair of Schoeps CMC621's have just arrived, but a few minutes ago.
Have not yet plugged them in.
Now comes the Nervousness & Anticipation associated with my newest toys.
*Will the Wide Cardiod give me what I hope they will(I have used Schoeps 4's & 41s before but not the 21's. The 21 capsule is very, very hard to demo. ).
* Will these mics reveal that I am worthy of them?(ha ha...the moment of truth!) I always worry that I have a bit of that American Idol Syndrome. You know that guy who thinks he can sing...but he really can't. ha ha..hope that is not me!
+Have not set up the recording process in over a year. Getting my mic stands out(heavy duty Atlas Pro...go three of them)
+Getting out my brand new Custom Canare Mic Cables. ( already had some Mogami cables...but they are 35 years old.
+ Bought some brand new Rycote INV-7 HG MKIII Shockmounts( heavy foot tapper) Saw a video on these and was duly impressed.
+ And just going to start with but my Zoom Hn4 pro. Keeping it simple while I experiment with mic placement. For myself...just a tad simpler for this old guy who was use to tape machines prior.
+ Put new strings on my Amazon Rosewood- Moonwood topped guitar last night.
So what I am doing typing this announcement on AGF when I know it is going to take me a few hours just to get going?
LOL...WEll just taking my time because I am of course..a bit nervous in Anticipation!
Sometimes, all you can do is Laugh. It has taken me few years to get to this point. And now the moment is here.
Wish me luck!
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  #2  
Old 06-26-2020, 03:24 PM
Tico Tico is online now
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I understand your excitement.
Congratulations on your new mics.
I think of Schoeps as holy grail mics.
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  #3  
Old 06-26-2020, 04:27 PM
gwlee7 gwlee7 is offline
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You will be very happy I am sure. I went the Gefell route but Schoeps sound amazing too. Congrats!!
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  #4  
Old 06-26-2020, 09:48 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default That's Great!

Aloha Knives & Guitars,

What? You? Not Worthy of Schoeps? BS!

C'mon! You bring much more beauty into the world than anyone with your one of a kind custom knives. See your new Schoeps, finally in your possession after years of waiting, simply as great karma, and providing you with the best tools to share a different type of beauty with your family & friends.

You will love them. And with the Collette System, as you see how incredible the possibilities are, you'll be saving for other capsules that meet your growing needs. Schoeps is as good as there are on the planet. The modular system ensures you'll never need to change brands. And they'll absolutely improve your playing & ability to lay down clear, great sounding tracks. Start practicing!

So please proceed without fear or trepidation, my friend. The long wait is over. You've committed to the best mic's for acoustic guitar tracks in the world. Slowly improve the other elements of your signal chain to EQUAL QUALITY so you can maximize your new mic's & recordings.

PM me & also sdelsolray out in Portland (tell him I sent you) if you want some clues towards building an appropriate signal chain. Doug Young is open as well to sharing his always great advice about playing, gear & recording.

Using Zoom products (noisy) & beginner Focusrite Scarlett interfaces (mid-rangey, compressed sounding onboard preamps) may be all your ears need at this point. But you can help your recordings sound clearer, less compressed & noisy, & more open with other gear down the road. Go with Logic Pro as your DAW.

Of course, & as you know making or buying adequate Room Treatment should be your next investment. That's the number one priority for home player/recordists.

So K & G, I look forward to hearing your impressions of the CMC621's wide cardioid capsules. Please keep us posted & if you'd like, share a WAV file or clip.

I'n very excited for you, Knives & Guitars!

A Hui Hou!
alohachris
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  #5  
Old 06-26-2020, 11:21 PM
Knives&Guitars Knives&Guitars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alohachris View Post
Aloha Knives & Guitars,

What? You? Not Worthy of Schoeps? BS!

C'mon! You bring much more beauty into the world than anyone with your one of a kind custom knives. See your new Schoeps, finally in your possession after years of waiting, simply as great karma, and providing you with the best tools to share a different type of beauty with your family & friends.

You will love them. And with the Collette System, as you see how incredible the possibilities are, you'll be saving for other capsules that meet your growing needs. Schoeps is as good as there are on the planet. The modular system ensures you'll never need to change brands. And they'll absolutely improve your playing & ability to lay down clear, great sounding tracks. Start practicing!

So please proceed without fear or trepidation, my friend. The long wait is over. You've committed to the best mic's for acoustic guitar tracks in the world. Slowly improve the other elements of your signal chain to EQUAL QUALITY so you can maximize your new mic's & recordings.

PM me & also sdelsolray out in Portland (tell him I sent you) if you want some clues towards building an appropriate signal chain. Doug Young is open as well to sharing his always great advice about playing, gear & recording.

Using Zoom products (noisy) & beginner Focusrite Scarlett interfaces (mid-rangey, compressed sounding onboard preamps) may be all your ears need at this point. But you can help your recordings sound clearer, less compressed & noisy, & more open with other gear down the road. Go with Logic Pro as your DAW.

Of course, & as you know making or buying adequate Room Treatment should be your next investment. That's the number one priority for home player/recordists.

So K & G, I look forward to hearing your impressions of the CMC621's wide cardioid capsules. Please keep us posted & if you'd like, share a WAV file or clip.

I'n very excited for you, Knives & Guitars!

A Hui Hou!
alohachris
Thank you so much for your extremely kind words! I hope you know how much I appreciate that!
And perfect timing as I just got through spending time with these mics. I am so very happy.
I procrastinated for several hours. Due to nervousness, I ate mass amounts of food. ha ha. Plus I Celebrated with a large Peanut butter mood at Jamba juice...ate some more food and Got a huge sugar downer. Basically I just collapsed for several hours. Even took a nap. Well mostly due to a bit of Stage fright, but lack of sleep from the night before as well=part of that fear-Anticipation mode I was in.
Got them at 12:30 and just plugged them in a 9:00 p.m.
I am so, so very happy. As you noted of course, the Zoom is certainly not a great device. But for testing it actually proves reasonable.
I was worried about phasing issues & room reflections because of the wide cardiod. I was worried about the stereo image that the wide cardiod would capture too much and not separate each side. But I got none of that. Everything is wonderful. My room, is reasonable sounding. I still will improve it and I will most definitely will. It is a living room- Den...so a large wide open space with not too many problems or reflections. Add on to the very close micing I am using, and the final product is with great sound and stereo separation.
As you Chris has noted in a previous post, the 21's don't sound that different from the 4's. The difference is that I can closer mic without much proximity and I get a little more of the body sound. Just a slight difference...that works well for what I needed.
Schoeps is absolutely the right choice for my playing style. First let me say, that Gefell and DPA make great mics too. DPA is more articulate...Certain models of Gefells have a spectacular high end. But Schoeps somehow gives us that smooth sound that the older transformered mics gave with the modern accurateness and openness of a Transformerless mic.
I play with a Dreadnought....using both fingerstyle and heavy strumming. I wanted that rock solid tone that Schoeps uses.
I am so happy with the sound...that I will NOT be waiting more than a week or two to start ordering new preamps and a compressor.
I will share sound files...but not until the preamps and compressor.
Final note...I am one happy guy right now. In fact you know how when you get a new guitar it may lead you to write new songs. That immediately happened when I plugged in. I found myself doodling in great form.
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Old 06-27-2020, 06:54 AM
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Very cool
Just some thoughts based on your reported trepidation.

And some points too perhaps consider to enhance perspective.

As stellar as Schoeps are they are in the final analysis simply tools of the process, they are not goals unto themselves. There is no such thing as not being good enough to justify them.

Recording and performance are just part of a process, and steps along the path, and are not really the goal or destination. So it does not matter if there are flaws "The journey of a thousand miles begins with one small step"

The beauty is actually in the Journey itself , and not arriving at a goal/destination.

Goals and destinations are transitory and constantly change, and can be repeated or modified . The Journey is ... the real time, one time occurrence of existence, and will never be repeatable..... SOOOOOO as my sig line suggest ENJOY THE JOURNEY
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Old 06-27-2020, 10:38 AM
Knives&Guitars Knives&Guitars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
The beauty is actually in the Journey itself , and not arriving at a goal/destination.
I too, am a believer that the Journey is the most important part of our lives. In actuality, it is the Quest in which I live for.
While it may not seem like it at the time, a little bit of Struggling, self doubt, and questions of worth, is of natural order. Hopefully it makes us a bit better in the end.
So a toast to the Journey, may it never end.
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Old 06-28-2020, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars View Post
I too, am a believer that the Journey is the most important part of our lives. In actuality, it is the Quest in which I live for.
While it may not seem like it at the time, a little bit of Struggling, self doubt, and questions of worth, is of natural order. Hopefully it makes us a bit better in the end.
So a toast to the Journey, may it never end.
I agree questioning self, is part of growth (as long as it does not prevent one from taking the first step on any given journey) BTW just musing generally not inferring anything.
For instance I know my gear is of top tier studio quality, and thus the journey for me is to bring my performing, recording, and mixing further up towards that bar.

Please let us know your decisions on pre and comp.

At one point we were considering purchasing a second home (still possible but on hold currently) so I was considering a second home studio and looking for some real value oriented outboard gear pre, and comp specifically, and in that search stumbled on both the Warm and Audio Source Bus comps, but now the Elysia Xpressor is on that short list as well
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Old 06-28-2020, 10:49 PM
Knives&Guitars Knives&Guitars is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Please let us know your decisions on pre and comp.
so I was considering a second home studio and looking for some real value oriented outboard gear pre, and comp specifically, and in that search stumbled on both the Warm and Audio Source Bus comps, but now the Elysia Xpressor is on that short list as well
Bare with me, I have a story to tell:
In the 1970's I bought a brand new Nuemann U87, and Urei 1176LN. Those two never let me down for vocals. I did wish for a bit more openness though. Which of course today's Digital and great preamps help to accomplish.
I thought I was done with music and sold my U87 back about 12 years ago or so. I had not even used it ten or so years. I thought to myself, there have been incredible advancements in electronics. People were stating left and right there are equal microphones for a tenth the price. And so I thought that if I got back into it, I could do so cheaply. From my experiences, this is not so .
There are some very nice value equipment, but it is sure hard to beat the total fulfillment of a high quality piece of recording equipment. And that is the journey I have been on.
So now I am faced with the next question: Is there a preamp that is that good at a lower price. Is there such an animal...or is it once again Hype and dreams. I still have to buy compressor, a valve preamp for vocals and possibly a new vocal mic. And then onto a midi keyboard. If I can save some money and still get the quality I ...need.
Anyway KevWind, here is what I am considering for pre's.
Camden 500. They can be had for around $350. The Reviews on this product are more than great by consumers and reviewers. I do not think you see any pro reviews that give any piece of equipment a negative review. But Camden seems to get stellar reviews. And on Vintage King there are eleven high reviews right now...and Vintage kind does not get many reviews like Sweetwater does.
Doug Young was kind enough to give me his thoughts on the Youtube video.(Can not say enough nice things about Doug, he is always so helpful) He thought it was decent but there might be a bit of distortion due to Camden's mojo and Thump controls and or Youtube problems of quality.
I know the model Larrivee he is using in the video..and to me it sounds pretty realistic. I believe he is using mid side with 414 and 451. I do hear a bit of harshness coming from the pick and AKG brightness, and the starkness that mahogany gives. But overall I think it is an accurate representation of what the guitar sounds like. He plays quite beautifully...and a beautiful tune as well.
Reviewers claim this preamp is Ultra clear and beat out other much higher priced preamps.
So the big question is= Is this too good to be true? A quality preamp for $350. Or have we come to the day and age where something like this can be as good for that kind of price.
I would still like to believe that Building a high quality preamp for lesser price is possible. Circuit boards, chips, resistors and switches. Should this not be possible? Microphones..are a different story...the Capsule is not easy feat to built perfectly.
So please give me your thoughts. Here is the video on the first link. And on the second link is the Homepage. Scroll down the page for more samples.
I will be so interested to hear your thoughts. And Please give me other suggestions.
If I need to spend more, then so be it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwO4e0TyDqg
http://www.cranborne-audio.com/camden500
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  #10  
Old 06-29-2020, 12:56 PM
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Wow a 70s era U87 would indeed be a great mic to have as would the Urei comp.


Honestly your serious recording way predates mine. I should be asking your advise

In the 70s I was fairly serious about sound, but was not into studio recording . I was into and selling high end home consumer audio, things like the Nakamichi 1000 cassette recorder, Macintosh, and Phase Linear amps, and Magneplanaer speakers
It was not until 2003 I got serious about home recording.

That said:: the SOS review of the Camdon is pretty high praise . And the price sounds excellent as well, you can get a pair for what some single channel 500 series pre's go for
I just listened to the video on my laptop earbuds (I'll give a listen later when I have my studio gear fired up. (And I enjoy but am alway cautious about YouTube playback and take it with grain of salt ) But it sounded nice, I think I preferred the non Mojo sound but again could just Youtube and or the laptop

If I were considering 500 I would seriously consider it .

And while I do think in general there has definitely been a steady improvement in the quality vs. price of analog electronics, right along with improvement in digital.

I personally also think in mics, there is still something to be said for , and a little something extra involved with, the upper mid and high end range. But as to whether or not that little extra is worth it to any given individual ? is well up to any given individual .....
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  #11  
Old 06-29-2020, 01:20 PM
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In my humble experiences...

good vocal mics will only make you sound better, not worse.. at least that's been my story!! maybe it'll be yours too.
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:00 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Aloha Knives & Guitars,

Little by little, you reveal more & more about your musical & gear history. NOTE: Aren't we Boomers so lucky to have been able to have so much great gear to play with for so long?!? And for the last 20 years or so, being able to approach pro level home recordings w/ DAW recording? It's all so cool!

I too was VERY lucky to have a pair of pristine, unused (hidden in an old lady's attic) 1972 U-87's for coupla decades & also owned a coupla historical U-47's from the late 50's-60's Sinatra Capitol Sessions era. Talk about not deserving gear, K&G, that kinda stuff was certainly WAY beyond my pay grade - Ha! My voice, even in its prime, really did not ever deserve those mics! I don't even really remember how they got into my hands. They just appeared. Or how they left?

Budget Preamps - Obviously I haven't heard the $350 Craneborne Audio Camden 500 preamp you're discussing here. Youtube recordings are NO CLUE! But credible sources like SoS rave about it & it's way cheaper than Neve's & their clones. Have you listened to it anywhere yet - in person? You might want to audition one at home before you buy. That will give you the most complete picture. A/B it against the Zoom or other pre's. Fun!

Are you all in on the 500's yet, Victor? Myself, for solo acoustic guitar recordings, I'm willing to give up the space for a full-sized, two-channel or more, full featured preamp. IMO, I've never trusted smaller sized audio gear. It always is a compromise on sound, or has various problems like cross-talk or noise, or too many or lacking features. Or can't read the controls on it like Zoom screens. There also weren't enough choices in the quality of 500 series racks when I was interested. Have you auditioned any 500 Series gear yet?

Rarely have I heard any gear that was truly amazing that did not relate directly to the price tag. They're out there but to me, "Cheap & Great Sounding" is an elusive, fool's gold type dream. I've found that especially to be true with great mic's & preamps. IME, my personal best & most consistent results came when I was fully committed to proper Room Treatment, & when EVERY element of my recording signal chain was of equal quality. There's always something left in the tank sonically when we try to combine lesser w/ great gear. Does Schoeps & Camden together qualify as equal, high-end quality? Perhaps it does with the positive Camden reviews. Just compare first with your ears, K&G. It could be a cheaper winner. or not.

If I were you, Victor, & looking to move up from an H4N, I'd probably buy a used or new Apogee Duet2 (for Apple) or RME Babyface (for PC) or Babyface Pro two-channel interface w/ balanced inputs. Two birds with one stone. The quality of the onboard preamps on those units - especially the Duet2 - cannot be matched without spending hundreds, even thousands more. They are better to my ears than the similar Gradient.

Running into either of those interfaces would give you excellent conversion by the two companies who invented & developed the technology, and pristine sounding recordings for vocal or guitar via the great onboard preamps.

I can't say enough about that choice for you at this stage, K&G. And then you could move up to great preamp's with a slightly fuller, more complete sound down the road (or not) without spending too much after the Schoeps mic purchase, right?

It's a simple set up. They are both small units with a small imprint. Plug the mic's into say a Duet2. Then into your computer & control with a great DAW like Logic Pro or Pro Tools. You're all set. Depends on what your ears & wallet demand, K&G.

I often made home recordings with the Schoeps/ Duet combination & was very satisfied with the results. And the Duet was about $4500 less than the Pendulum MDP-1a I finally ended up with years later. All gone now! If I were starting over (as we all do from time to time, if we still have the time - Ha!), I'd go front end Schoeps/Duet2/Logic Pro & call it a day. Add some great, reasonably-priced passive monitors (like Adam A7X's or Neuman KH-120's) later. Also, use quality external hard drives to store your projects separately. Eliminates lost-data problems down the road & doesn't use up computer HD space.

I'm sure there are many more preamp & interface choices out there now than when I was in the hayday of my GAS. But try 'em out first, my friend. You may like the sound better than the Zoom in terms of noise & circuitry, IMO. Once you are in tune with your new Schoep's in your music, IN A TREATED SPACE. you can begin to audition them in different preamp combo's, and that's a lot of fun!

Start with Room Treatment.

More later...

Aloha Knives & Guitars!
alohachris

PS: Again, what is your current signal chain, K&G? Also, buying used is a viable option. Duet2's & RME Babyface interfaces are available in great condition for half the price @ gearslutz -alohachris-

Last edited by alohachris; 06-30-2020 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:13 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by alohachris View Post

If I were you, Victor, & looking to move up from an H4N, I'd probably buy a used or new Apogee Duet2 (for Apple) or RME Babyface (for PC) two-channel interface. Two birds with one stone. The quality of the onboard preamps on those units - especially the Duet2 - cannot be matched without spending hundreds, even thousands more. They are better to my ears than the similar Gradient.

Aloha Knives & Guitars!
alohachris
I have a bunch nice preamps (Neve, UA, Manley, etc) and I concur, the RME pres are stellar (I have them in a Babyface and a UCX), they're definitely capable of professional results! I totally recommend the Babyface if two channels is all you need, and it's expandable to 10 with the ADAT in.
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:29 PM
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Save some money and thought for room acoustics treatment. That will make the biggest impact on your recorded sound.
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
I have a bunch nice preamps (Neve, UA, Manley, etc) and I concur, the RME pres are stellar (I have them in a Babyface and a UCX), they're definitely capable of professional results! I totally recommend the Babyface if two channels is all you need, and it's expandable to 10 with the ADAT in.
+1 on the RME Babyface Pro.
My mics aren't up there with Schoeps, only 414s and Sennheiser 441s but the sound through the Babyface pres is fantastic.

FWIW, RME's original was called just Babyface.
A couple years back it was upgraded, and is now called Babyface Pro.
I just mention this because you can probably find the old one much cheaper used if you want to affordably step up to RME's stable converters and drivers.

It comes bundled with clever mixing/routing software (TotalMix FX) that, let's just say, does things differently.
It was not intuitive for me.
Fortunately RME has a Youtube channel with training vids.

Here's RME's introduction to the Babyface Pro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o4F8kb95PU&t=10s

Here's RME's introduction to TotalMix FX:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkxz...k&index=2&t=0s

Last edited by Tico; 06-30-2020 at 03:25 PM.
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