Acoustic with LOUD country band

[Feifongwong]

Originally Posted by Peter Z

Feifongwong, I don’t think, there is a way to make an acoustic audible against a Twin at high volume.
Have you thought about a Fender Acoustasonic? I’ve never played one but that could work. A soundhole cover will not help too much because the vibrations of your top will feed back. I had that more than once.

https://www.fender.com/de-AT/acoustasonic-guitars/

Yes I have. I play occasionally in another band with a player that uses an acoustasonic and it works great, but as I am the 2nd guitar player in that band, I am very considerate of his needs...I will ask him what model his is and how he uses it.

[shufflebeat]

If no-one but you in the band are listening to the acoustic then avoid the volume war, investigate IEMs. No acoustic in the wedge means more is possible out front.

Decent fitting and well set up IEMs will also serve to protect your hearing like earplugs.

In order to give you a proper answer and reliable solution we'd need to have a bit more info.

Back later.

[Feifongwong]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

If no-one but you in the band are listening to the acoustic then avoid the volume war, investigate IEMs. No acoustic in the wedge means more is possible out front.

Decent fitting and well set up IEMs will also serve to protect your hearing like earplugs.

In order to give you a proper answer and reliable solution we'd need to have a bit more info.

Back later.

Sounds good and thanks.

Band:
drums
keys; nord keys with two QSC speakers used as "amps"
bass (& vocals); either ampeg 200 watt or fender rumble 40
guitar 1 (me, vocals); tele, pedalboard, Dr Z Stang Ray or Z Wreck Jr
guitar 2 and pedal steel; Tele and steel into Fender Tonemaster Twin
lead vocals
female vocals

PA is a Mackie board, 3x Mackie Thump 12's for Monitors (or two as mains and one as a single monitor; this was how saturday was set up), 2x EV ELX115P as mains on stands

Very "old school" setup: Only vocals go thru PA, sometimes instruments go in , but very rarely. Amps are responsible for audience listening unless its a big outdoor gig, but even then, the amps don't usually go thru the PA. Again, very old school.

Gigs are typically 3 sets, with two song rudimentary soundchecks. Ironically we get tons of complements on our sound and playing after the gig is over. The person that booked us for Saturday's gig left us a great online review. Go figure.

Sample material: Vince Gill (Liza Jane, Ridin the Rodeo), Marty Stuart (Honky Tonk Crowd, Country Boy Rock and Roll), Buck Owens (Act Naturally, etc.), and various other boogie songs.

Not sure if I'm on the right track with your request for more info; let me know if not.

I asked the singer to borrow one of the mackie 12's to practice with at home. My plan is to test my HX stomp (for reverb, eq and maybe comp) into the para acoustic DI, directly into the mackie 12 and use my soundhole cover. I'm not sure if the bass guitar or kick drum could induce feedback, but I have no way of finding that out until next rehearsal (herding cats).

All of this may be futile and the acoustic may just not have a place in this band (it's been 12 years without it after all), but it would be nice to figure it out somehow.

[Peter Z]

That band sounds like fun.
Could it be that the Tonemaster is a bit more gracious than the tube Twin? Otherwise I would have thought it will kill one ore two or four Mackie Thumps and especially those small bassamps without efforts. Or, and this is what I think is, he uses the power reduction on the back of the Tonemaster. That would also increase your chances to use an acoustic guitar with a good eq. Still I think, something like the Acoustasonic will be the most easy solution.

To your setup: When I bought the HX Stomp right after it came out, it became my only piece of personal gear on the stage. It works for everything, acoustics, mandolins and bass.
Last year I even took out my Tele for one R’R, Blues and Soul gig. Me, my Tele, the Stomp and the PA. Was all it needed. I even sold my Super Reverb.

I think you will not need the para acoustic. Keep in mind that the outputs on the Stomp are balanced. Just take a TRS to XLR cable and plug it into the mixer. So no need for a DI.

[Crowder]

The problem is the box of your guitar is made to resonate right in the frequency range that guitars and vocals excite. Your guitar will pick up and vibrate with everything on stage that is in that frequency range because that's exactly what it was designed to do.

A solidbody or semi-hollow acoustic is a pretty handy solution for loud stages. No, it won't sound like a great acoustic guitar except louder, but it can be made audible and will sound about as good as an average acoustic guitar with a factory pickup.

The singer in my old band used an Epiphone SST and it really worked great for this. Godin makes decent ones too. If you wanted to spend a bundle for an Anderson Crowdster that's another option, but they all sound pretty similar IMO.

[Feifongwong]

Originally Posted by Peter Z

That band sounds like fun.
Could it be that the Tonemaster is a bit more gracious than the tube Twin? Otherwise I would have thought it will kill one ore two or four Mackie Thumps and especially those small bassamps without efforts. Or, and this is what I think is, he uses the power reduction on the back of the Tonemaster. That would also increase your chances to use an acoustic guitar with a good eq. Still I think, something like the Acoustasonic will be the most easy solution.

To your setup: When I bought the HX Stomp right after it came out, it became my only piece of personal gear on the stage. It works for everything, acoustics, mandolins and bass.
Last year I even took out my Tele for one R’R, Blues and Soul gig. Me, my Tele, the Stomp and the PA. Was all it needed. I even sold my Super Reverb.

I think you will not need the para acoustic. Keep in mind that the outputs on the Stomp are balanced. Just take a TRS to XLR cable and plug it into the mixer. So no need for a DI.

Yes, at the end of the day it’s a very fun band and I have a great time (the Stang Ray cranked up is pretty amazing). Just one of those things where I see others do it with similar setups and have no issues. A friend has an acoustasonic 90 that sounds very nice. He sets it behind him and has no issues. I am looking into that as well.

[Nymuso]

Look into a Godin A6 Ultra. It costs way less than the Fender and I am told by those who have played both the Fender and the Godin that it is superior in tone to the Fender. The Godin is my current gigging instrument. It Does. Not. Feed. Back.

Maybe somebody can get it to feed back, but it ain’t me.

[erniecaster]

Hi,

if it´s too loud to play an acoustic guitar because someone in the band doesn´t care, leave your acoustic guitar at home. You might stay at home as well - that´s what I would do if a member in the band doesn´t listen.

cu

erniecaster

[surdopickups]

Originally Posted by Feifongwong

Hi all, first post:

I’ve been in a country band for many many years now. We play a lot of Vince Gill and Buck Owens tunes. I have a really nice Taylor 414ce with the ES2 system (upgraded from the crummy ES1). I have a Para Acoustic DI, HX Stomp and that’s it. I have no other acoustic gear.

The other guitar player insists on playing a fender twin on 8 (just brutally loud) and I play an assortment of Dr Z amps (Stang Ray, MAZ Jr, Z wreck Jr) which work great to keep up with the volume.

Because of the sheer volume, I always just resort to playing electric.

At our last gig this weekend, I brought both the electric rig (tele, z wreck jr) and the acoustic rig (Taylor, para acoustic DI, into PA). Soundcheck is always two songs and the first set basically. The acoustic disappeared in the mix except for lots of low feedback whenever I hit an A chord.

What is the solution for loud band acoustic? I don’t get it. I had to just do the usual tele on middle position for rhythm and the Taylor just sat all night looking pretty.

I have searched and searched the inter webs for some loud gigging acoustic knowledge, but can’t find much. I was thinking of getting a loudbox mini as a stage monitor, but wonder if it’ll be enough, and if it will just feedback at the volumes we play.

And no, the other guitar player will not turn down (it’s been 12 years and it won’t change). If any of you can help me I’d be so grateful. It is very frustrating to have such a sweet electric setup that works and no acoustic in a country band.

it can be evaluated with a feedback suppressor cap with built-in pickup?

[Br1ck]

I'm surprised you ever get a repeat gig. Your other guitar player probably has massive hearing loss. I have a friend asked constantly to turn down in average sized bars with 12 watt amps. Hope you're wearing ear protection.

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

I'm surprised you ever get a repeat gig. Your other guitar player probably has massive hearing loss. I have a friend asked constantly to turn down in average sized bars with 12 watt amps. Hope you're wearing ear protection.

That is something I almost commented on. Now, the OP has been in this band for many years and has sorted out for himself whether to keep playing in it. Life is filled with tradeoffs, rock on! But other than just wanting MOAR, the two main reasons bands play way too loud is that they're behind most of the PAs and don't get the full impact they're punching their audiences with; or/and they have hearing loss and don't really know it. Up goes the volume to 11. A terrific local solo guy is like this, as one of his band mates told me (he also has a trio).

I have a decibel meter on my smartphone and pull it out when I think I'm getting pummeled too much--but then, I'm older, and lost some hearing and gained tinnitus a few years ago after falling ill.

[Feifongwong]

Originally Posted by Chriscom

That is something I almost commented on. Now, the OP has been in this band for many years and has sorted out for himself whether to keep playing in it. Life is filled with tradeoffs, rock on! But other than just wanting MOAR, the two main reasons bands play way too loud is that they're behind most of the PAs and don't get the full impact they're punching their audiences with; or/and they have hearing loss and don't really know it. Up goes the volume to 11. A terrific local solo guy is like this, as one of his band mates told me (he also has a trio).

I have a decibel meter on my smartphone and pull it out when I think I'm getting pummeled too much--but then, I'm older, and lost some hearing and gained tinnitus a few years ago after falling ill.

Yes, I suspect hearing loss as well. At the end of the day, I/we have a great time and have been together for so long that it's pointless to get mad. I told the other guitar player to turn his amp away from me after the 2nd song and he did and turned down a bit. At the end of the day, he's not a monster.

Lol! I am surprised we get called back sometimes too, but ya know, the people drink and dance and that's all you can ask for sometimes. Before he used to bring a Fender Custom Vibrasonic (twin with a 15) to every gig, so I'm glad the tonemaster is here.

Yes, I have a set of earplugs I bring. I remember once him telling me that I play too loud when I wear them. I was like "yeah, then you DEFINITELY shouldn't get these then!"

Thanks all for the replies. For my first thread, so far everyone has been very helpful/kind. Wondering if anyone else out there has come across a similar situation and what their workaround was.

Thanks again.

[TheJackal]

I've heard that if you want the lead guitar player to turn down, put a piece of sheet music in front of them.

I wish I could offer a viable solution. Less is more, especially as regards volume levels. Too loud takes away from the musicality, in my opinion.

Good luck with finding a solution. I will say that the Ultratonic set up with a tonedexter gives great sound and at reasonable volumes will cut through the mix.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by Feifongwong

Hi all, first post:

I’ve been in a country band for many many years now. We play a lot of Vince Gill and Buck Owens tunes. I have a really nice Taylor 414ce with the ES2 system (upgraded from the crummy ES1). I have a Para Acoustic DI, HX Stomp and that’s it. I have no other acoustic gear.

The other guitar player insists on playing a fender twin on 8 (just brutally loud) and I play an assortment of Dr Z amps (Stang Ray, MAZ Jr, Z wreck Jr) which work great to keep up with the volume.

Because of the sheer volume, I always just resort to playing electric.

At our last gig this weekend, I brought both the electric rig (tele, z wreck jr) and the acoustic rig (Taylor, para acoustic DI, into PA). Soundcheck is always two songs and the first set basically. The acoustic disappeared in the mix except for lots of low feedback whenever I hit an A chord.

What is the solution for loud band acoustic? I don’t get it. I had to just do the usual tele on middle position for rhythm and the Taylor just sat all night looking pretty.

I have searched and searched the inter webs for some loud gigging acoustic knowledge, but can’t find much. I was thinking of getting a loudbox mini as a stage monitor, but wonder if it’ll be enough, and if it will just feedback at the volumes we play.

And no, the other guitar player will not turn down (it’s been 12 years and it won’t change). If any of you can help me I’d be so grateful. It is very frustrating to have such a sweet electric setup that works and no acoustic in a country band.

Other guitar player sounds like a complete hack. 12 years is a lot more patience than I'd have for someone who's not a team player in a band.

[Chriscom]

I will say that the Ultratonic set up with a tonedexter gives great sound and at reasonable volumes will cut through the mix.

Yes, If we can focus on helping this guy rather than commenting on his choices in life lol...

I've said this elsewhere, but the sound I'm currently getting out of my Sonitone-equipped Martin, via the Tonedexter, is by no means pure acoustic. It has a strong dose of electrified acoustic, but very pleasant and something that would cut through a mix much better than a pure acoustic.

Since I play mainly solo I'm going to tweak it some more, for that more acoustic tone, but when playing in a group I'd happily go back to my current setup. I think the OP should consider the Tonedexter, or something like it like the Baggs Voiceprint.