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  #31  
Old 07-06-2020, 09:12 PM
Wild Bill Jones Wild Bill Jones is offline
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And add John Walker too. The closest I’ve heard to a pre war guitar sound is my (maybe any) Martin D 28 Authentic with VTS top. Loud and rowdy. I am sure there are others. I’ve played ( not owned unfortunately) a few pre war Martins and one Gibson, (looked like a beat up J45.). Like all guitars, they have there own sound. The 1924 Martin, something like a D 18, I am not sure of the model, I played at Rudy’s in NYC had a sound I had never heard of before or since. At $2700O, ten years ago, I didn’t buy it.
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  #32  
Old 07-06-2020, 10:35 PM
hairpuller hairpuller is offline
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Originally Posted by Scotso View Post
I hope you enjoy it. I like Pre Wars but would not put them in the vintage Martin category...more in the aged Collings category or maybe 50s or 60s Martin, so pre Viet Nam war. Love em but not what I hear on old Martins


One thing I do know is that the Pre*War guitars sound nothing like Collings...not even close.
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  #33  
Old 07-06-2020, 11:06 PM
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justonwo justonwo is offline
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For pre-war Martins, I would say Blazer and Henkes and Laurent Brondel do a fantastic job. Circa, too.

Bear in mind, pre-war Martin encompasses a WHOLE lotta sound. I’ve had a chance to play many, many pre-war Martins. And, in one case, two 1930 OMs side by side. Very different guitars.

The B&H OM-28 I played last year is a dead ringer for OMs I’ve played in the shop at Schoenberg.

http://om28.com/ProductDetail?product=P191106001

My Brondel OM-42 as well. Circa is a little more of an evolved form of that sound, as Bob Berger put it. More power and headroom with a little less bass. Slightly different sound. I’ve played a bunch from various other guys, but those are the ones that have come the closest to catching the overall vibe.
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  #34  
Old 07-06-2020, 11:23 PM
merlin666 merlin666 is offline
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Originally Posted by sjm1580 View Post
I have been reading numerous posts about different guitars having that "Pre" War" sound. I imagine that relatively few people have a chance to play a truly vintage pre war, say Martin, it would be helpful to get some opinions to whom is best replicating those timeless instruments.

I wanted to ask, who do you think is the best or among the best shops building guitars that best replicate that "Pre-War" sound?

Hope this is a productive discussion.
To replicate the old builds the builders must have access to a large number of old and unmodified guitars to study and analyze them for reverse engineering . Martin was able to do that for their authentic guitars. I doubt that many if any builders have access to sufficiently large collections to make similar claims of authenticity. A possible exception may be Ren Ferguson who has examined hundreds of old guitars and likely has highest level of knowledge.
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  #35  
Old 07-07-2020, 07:59 AM
Scotso Scotso is offline
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Originally Posted by hairpuller View Post
One thing I do know is that the Pre*War guitars sound nothing like Collings...not even close.
And Collings do not sound like 50s or 60s Martins but they both lean to being punchy in the mids and highs as are Pre War. So on an EQ basis they are all similar to my ear. To my ear PreWar does a great job imitating preVietnam-era of Martin. Sorry if I made you misunderstand.
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  #36  
Old 07-07-2020, 08:44 AM
hairpuller hairpuller is offline
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Originally Posted by Scotso View Post
And Collings do not sound like 50s or 60s Martins but they both lean to being punchy in the mids and highs as are Pre War. So on an EQ basis they are all similar to my ear. To my ear PreWar does a great job imitating preVietnam-era of Martin. Sorry if I made you misunderstand.
No sweat.
I'm just going off my own experience with owning and playing quite a few Collings. Now, I've only played two Pre*War guitars, one being the one in my sig, so I don't have a ton of reference. However, the ones I've played have been extremely warm, full, and woody. Those adjectives wouldn't normally be in use when describing my Collings guitars experiences.
Don't have enough experience with preVietnam Martins to comment.
Thanks!
scott
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  #37  
Old 07-07-2020, 10:31 AM
redir redir is offline
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I'm not at all the best (at anything really) but I have been making pre-war designed OM's lately. I'm using BRW and Torrified Red Spruce. I have a vintage collector client who is very happy, so there's that.

So it seems if you want to get close to an 80 year old guitar using the designs of course is important, the wood, and the torrified tops helps. THose old guitars were very lightly built too. Sides are down to .075 inches. All hot hide glue construction and so on. So same materials, same designs, same well aged wood, torrified top is about as close as you can get.

IDK if anyone mentioned it but I think Wayne Henderson has a reputation for that classic sound.
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  #38  
Old 07-07-2020, 05:22 PM
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justonwo justonwo is offline
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Originally Posted by merlin666 View Post
To replicate the old builds the builders must have access to a large number of old and unmodified guitars to study and analyze them for reverse engineering . Martin was able to do that for their authentic guitars. I doubt that many if any builders have access to sufficiently large collections to make similar claims of authenticity. A possible exception may be Ren Ferguson who has examined hundreds of old guitars and likely has highest level of knowledge.
Eh, maybe. I don’t think it’s as simple as matching dimensional measurements. In fact, I’m quite certain isn’t. It leaves a big unknown - the stiffness of the wood being measured. Regardless, I have played guitars by people that have seen “a lot” of old Martins without having access to the world’s largest library, and I can tell you a few of them do better job than what Martin has done with the Authentics (as good as they are).
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  #39  
Old 07-07-2020, 05:35 PM
sjm1580 sjm1580 is offline
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Originally Posted by justonwo View Post
Eh, maybe. I don’t think it’s as simple as matching dimensional measurements. In fact, I’m quite certain isn’t. It leaves a big unknown - the stiffness of the wood being measured. Regardless, I have played guitars by people that have seen “a lot” of old Martins without having access to the world’s largest library, and I can tell you a few of them do better job than what Martin has done with the Authentics (as good as they are).
Would you share who is at the top of your list?

Last edited by sjm1580; 07-07-2020 at 05:45 PM.
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  #40  
Old 07-07-2020, 07:57 PM
EverettWilliams EverettWilliams is offline
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Originally Posted by justonwo View Post
Eh, maybe. I don’t think it’s as simple as matching dimensional measurements. In fact, I’m quite certain isn’t. It leaves a big unknown - the stiffness of the wood being measured. Regardless, I have played guitars by people that have seen “a lot” of old Martins without having access to the world’s largest library, and I can tell you a few of them do better job than what Martin has done with the Authentics (as good as they are).
Yes, 100%. Martin does not have a monopoly on information.
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  #41  
Old 07-07-2020, 08:32 PM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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I just wonder how many would be able to tell the difference between new guitars and pre-war guitars if they were sitting in a room with a divider in the middle and they didn’t know what guitars they were listening to on the other side of that divider! I bet we’d all be surprised at the new guitars that would smoke the old guitars, IF we purely went off the sound in a room versus knowing what the year, make, model and tone woods were involved. There’s a documentary about old versus new violins and in the blind test with multiple listeners, several new violins were picked over the PRICELESS(because of their name and age) old violins.
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  #42  
Old 07-07-2020, 08:36 PM
Rosewood99 Rosewood99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tnfiddler View Post
I just wonder how many would be able to tell the difference between new guitars and pre-war guitars if they were sitting in a room with a divider in the middle and they didn’t know what guitars they were listening to on the other side of that divider! I bet we’d all be surprised at the new guitars that would smoke the old guitars, IF we purely went off the sound in a room versus knowing what the year, make, model and tone woods were involved. There’s a documentary about old versus new violins and in the blind test with multiple listeners, several new violins were picked over the PRICELESS(because of their name and age) old violins.
If I'm listening to a guitar blindfolded I would not be able to tell the difference. But if I'm playing one I'll bet you as much as you want that I can tell the difference in a heartbeat.
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  #43  
Old 07-07-2020, 08:49 PM
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justonwo justonwo is offline
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Originally Posted by justonwo View Post
For pre-war Martins, I would say Blazer and Henkes and Laurent Brondel do a fantastic job. Circa, too.

Bear in mind, pre-war Martin encompasses a WHOLE lotta sound. I’ve had a chance to play many, many pre-war Martins. And, in one case, two 1930 OMs side by side. Very different guitars.

The B&H OM-28 I played last year is a dead ringer for OMs I’ve played in the shop at Schoenberg.

http://om28.com/ProductDetail?product=P191106001

My Brondel OM-42 as well. Circa is a little more of an evolved form of that sound, as Bob Berger put it. More power and headroom with a little less bass. Slightly different sound. I’ve played a bunch from various other guys, but those are the ones that have come the closest to catching the overall vibe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm1580 View Post
Would you share who is at the top of your list?
See above. Not comprehensive. Schoenberg can also be a dead ringer, but it depends on the builder. My Klepper-made Schoenberg oozes vintage Martin.
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