Why no jumbo frets on acoustics? - Page 2

mc1 · #16 10-08-2011, 04:47 AM

i don't like skinny frets at all, and short frets even less. seems to me that once you learn not to press too hard, then higher wider frets are more comfortable and give better control.

i think there is some tradition involved with the thin wire. i also think many players refret with bigger wire.

dberkowitz · #17 10-08-2011, 05:34 AM

Most players, when playing passionately actually squeeze the strings down harder than they might otherwise, and as such throw the guitar out of tune. This is even more problematic on jumbo frets and scalloped fingerboards. Electric players tend to bend their strings more for accent and the higher frets work to their advantage; less so for the acoustic player particularly with an acoustic's heavier gauge strings (relative to an electric).

What's interesting to note is that the higher frets, if one were able to control one's pressure are actually better for your hand as there isn't the tendency to actually press the string all the way down to the fingerboard but instead use the fret itself to stop the string. You can play faster this way. Unfortunately the natural tendency is to press the string home and with larger frets, intonation becomes a problem.

Bob Womack · #18 10-08-2011, 07:02 AM

Higher frets require less pressure to fret for the same reason that Dave mentioned. As a result, they are more comfortable for those with arthritis or with other inflammitory issues. I personally experienced this when I had a reaction to a statin drug that caused arm and hand pain. My instruments with high frets were reasonable to play. The instruments with low frets, such as my Taylors, were unbearable.

Bob

zabdart · #19 10-08-2011, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Higher frets require less pressure to fret for the same reason that Dave mentioned. As a result, they are more comfortable for those with arthritis or with other inflammitory issues. I personally experienced this when I had a reaction to a statin drug that caused arm and hand pain. My instruments with high frets were reasonable to play. The instruments with low frets, such as my Taylors, were unbearable.

Bob

My thanks to Dave and Bob for their thoughtful, analytic responses, which certainly clarified the issue for me.

PowerTube · #20 10-08-2011, 08:44 AM

We've had some excellent input here about the difference between fret sizes, most of which I already knew, but I'm still surprised that there aren't more (any?) acoustics on the market with jumbos.

drumstrummer · #21 10-08-2011, 09:07 AM

I had a limited run Washburn EA15 with solid spruce top and as I remember it the frets were quite chunky. Not sure if it is true of the rest of their lower end festival series, but as it was a thinline and had big frets, it was very easy to play.

blaren · #22 10-08-2011, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Higher frets require less pressure to fret for the same reason that Dave mentioned. As a result, they are more comfortable for those with arthritis or with other inflammitory issues. I personally experienced this when I had a reaction to a statin drug that caused arm and hand pain. My instruments with high frets were reasonable to play. The instruments with low frets, such as my Taylors, were unbearable.

Bob

I don't understand this. Why are higher frets easier to play? Are you saying that because they are taller they are closer to the strings and so the action is lower??
You don't need to raise the frets to lower action. You can do that at the saddle and nut.

Have you ever played a fretless wonder? You know, the old Les Pauls with flat crowns?? The low frets is WHAT makes the action so low on those.
I have a '76 Hummingbird. The frets have no wear on them but they are VERY "short". That thing has better action than ANY of my acoustics and some of my electrics...because the frets are so short and flat.

Unless I'm confusing this and misunderstood what you said...taller frets does not make the action better/lower/easier.

Gypsyblue · #23 10-08-2011, 10:23 AM

My fingers contact more of the fingerboard surface with lower frets - that's where the gunk you have to clean off the fingerboard comes from.

If you use taller frets the pads of your fingers will make less contact with the fingerboard.

That's one reason higher frets might be easier to play: less drag.

00Buck · #24 10-08-2011, 10:49 AM

Find a Martin OMC Fingerstyle 1. Spanish cedar back & sides, adirondack top, jumbo frets. I had one for a while. Personally, noticed no difference in playability or comfort.

donh · #25 10-08-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landru

They referring to what?

The question was about jumbo frets. So the 'they' is jumbo frets.

Bob Womack · #26 10-08-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blaren

I don't understand this. Why are higher frets easier to play? Are you saying that because they are taller they are closer to the strings and so the action is lower??
You don't need to raise the frets to lower action. You can do that at the saddle and nut.

Have you ever played a fretless wonder? You know, the old Les Pauls with flat crowns?? The low frets is WHAT makes the action so low on those.
I have a '76 Hummingbird. The frets have no wear on them but they are VERY "short". That thing has better action than ANY of my acoustics and some of my electrics...because the frets are so short and flat.

Unless I'm confusing this and misunderstood what you said...taller frets does not make the action better/lower/easier.

Taller frets force you to fret with less pressure. If you don't, you'll pull the string sharp. It's not a question of action height, it's a question of fretting pressure.

The only reason the Les Paul "fretless wonder" (which I have played) is able to get by with such a low action is because the strings don't have to generate acoustic sound by driving a top. On an acoustic, you need a taller action so that the strings can be struck harder to drive the top of the guitar, which works a bit like a speaker. I had my Les Paul refretted with medium jumbos, by the way.

However, the question of fret heights is a question of personal taste. Some like the low ones, some like the tall ones. I do a lot of lead work and prefer a taller fret for a more secure feel in bends and I prefer the low fret pressure the taller frets demand and allow.

Bob

murrmac123 · #27 10-08-2011, 02:07 PM

The more I read discussions on various forums about tall frets on acoustics, the more I am forced to the conclusion that the only people who gainsay them are people who have never played them.

Lacking Talent · #28 10-08-2011, 03:02 PM

Acoustic setup hot-rodder Dan Lashbrook -- http://www.danlashbrook.com/guitar-info.htm -- is a fan:

"My findings have been that the biggest jumbo frets give the biggest sound. The smaller frets transmit the smallest amount of sound, ie. string transmit to the fingerboard. My favorite fret size is the 6000 Jim Dunlop series fret which is what Stevie Ray Vaughan used on his guitars. This is actually a bass fret. I first used these in 1986.

Changing standard Martin frets and going to the 6000 series is a remarkable gain in tone, volume, and playability of the guitar. In using the 6000 series fret or the 6105, the tips of your fingers never touch the fingerboard, only the strings, because you're 55 thousandths or 60 thousandths off the fret board. So you have more initial pop from each note and each cord so the sustain is greater and longer as well and bending is a breeze. Also it takes less effort on your fretting hand to hold the notes down than it does on a smaller fret."

BusterBFan · #29 10-08-2011, 03:12 PM

So, yeah. They do exist. That one is my favorite acoustic guitar, period.

Look at vintage Ovations from the early/mid 80's. I don't know exactly what models had them and what ones didn't, but you'll know them when you see them and they're ridiculously underrated as playing instruments. Thankfully, the horde of 'collectors' haven't yet latched on to them thus driving the prices out of range, but this tide seems to be turning a bit, so maybe act now while they're still cheap.

I'd ignore the gear-theorists who say they're lousy based on technical-manual reasoning. They're fantastic.

donh · #30 10-08-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrmac123

The more I read discussions on various forums about tall frets on acoustics, the more I am forced to the conclusion that the only people who gainsay them are people who have never played them.

THIS!

My main guitars all have tall frets and *everyone* that picks them up is pleased with how they play.

The influence Bob Womack mentioned where they force you to play easy and with less pressure has been a godsend. I knew this going in and welcomed it for the saving grace it is.