Zoom R4. Anyone else?

[dnf777]

Snagged one of these hot off the assembly line (via Sweetwater) and have been playing around with it. Very simple vocal/guitar stuff, so not pushing the limits by any means. If nothing else, I gained an appreciation for 32 bit processing with bi-amps. No gain settings to worry about. Kinda weird, really. Took my ONE skill I mastered away!

I get a feeling this is just a “test model” For new technology (at least among consumer grade products) and if well received will start showing up as routine.

Still prefer the R20, but this aint bad. I havent tried external mics yet to judge the pre-amps, but expect they may be similar to other zoom recorders.

[KevWind]

Now you will have to learn

[Rudy4]

I wasn't aware of the R4 until you posted. I've been watching all the posted videos and reading the Sound On Sound review with interest.



I also have an R20, but I do frequently use my smaller and more portable Tascam DR-05, so the R4 might be a nice in-between machine. I considered the R12, but Zoom did some serious hobbling of that machine that limits its usefulness as a grab-n-go recorder. The R-4 looks like they took the user reviews of the R12 and came up with a new form factor based on that input.

Please do post more about your likes / dislikes and what you're doing with yours.

My first reaction is to not like the small form sliders, but under use they wouldn't need to be long or even medium throw controls like a larger machine might have. As long as they stand up to use!

Everything else looks robust, and they have at least incorporated one on board mic. It would have been better if two could have been used so you could grab a quick stereo pass. I would have preferred a 1/4" jack for headphones, but such is life! Good to see Zoom finally adapting USB-C to their offerings.

Zoom is obviously taking a long and hard look at how these recorders are actually used, and it's pretty brilliant to incorporate a "quick mixdown" and 5th "bounce" track, clearing up 4 tracks for more overdubs, ad infinitum. They know that semi-serious users are going to take all of the individual raw tracks to a DAW if they want to do any serious work.

Perhaps its greatest touted feature, 32 bit float recording, I'm still on the fence with. Theoretically a brilliant idea, my recording environment and mics would probably limit its usefulness for me. Watching a few of the "Do you need 32 bit recording?" videos from folks like Julian Krause hasn't convinced me of its usefulness in my case.

[dnf777]

Rudy-
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. From prior posts/discussions, I know you have a similar situation as me, so I'm always interested to hear your take on things.

The bounce track was really appealing to me. I may layer vocals, guitar, drum machine, and a few other simple tracks, but in NO WAY do I need simultaneous recording of 12 tracks. 4 is plenty, and I suspect market surveys probably showed that that is a common scenario.

I also lamented not having nicer stereo condensers built in, but it was mentioned in some other review that would be encroaching on the Hn6 territory. yes indeed, it would be essentially a HN6, with 32bit capability.

My hunch on 32bit technology, is that it is a wonderful solution looking for a problem, that is not relatively easily solved already. But...I suspect it will become an industry standard that we just live with as a new norm. Not passionate either way on it yet, either.

So far, I've found it can do everything I was routinely doing on my R20. (not that it has the same capabilities...just the ones I routinely USE in my studio) The larger touch screen initially drew me to the R20, but in practical everyday use, I'm not finding it very useful, and could easily live without it. (as such, I noticed the R4's screen is NOT touch, like the similar Tascam's offering is)

There is definitely some great new technology out there in the consumer realm, that I think is looking for the right combination to settle into. Digital multi-track, 32bit, on-board mics, battery portability, on-board processing, and mastering, all feeling out the market demands for now)

I still like my R20, but the L8 is quickly heading for the marketplace...

Just one more quick thought....for the R4's under-$200 price, it certainly is inviting to "give it a shot". Its not like a 500+ investment.

I can't imagine what a little R4 could command if you could take it back to the 70's in a time machine. Nobody would believe it!

Edit: simultaneous tracking of 2 channels, not four with the R4. You can mix up to 4 simultaneously, but only record two. (which is good for my needs)

[Rudy4]

Hi Dave,
I also had an L8 that I opted not to keep once the R20 came on the scene. The R4 would suit most of my needs, and I only would use the R20 for those times when I live track others. I have done a few CD projects in the past and would use the R20 for that.

One disconcerting thing I've seen mentioned was that some of the DAWs won't import 32 bit float. That could be a serious drawback. I use Reaper exclusively and don't know if it will permit 32 bit float files to be used.

I haven't read the manual yet, but I'm unclear on how you can "bounce" to the 5th track, add 4 more tracks and combine the bounced track with the 4 new tracks. I'd hope that was easy to do, but haven't researched it that far.

I know once you get done that all the single tracks can be imported into the DAW environment but that wouldn't help for initially recording more than 8 tracks if that was desired.

I do have a small dedicated space for playing around, but I LOVE to do "easy chair recording"! It helps to have stuff that is portable enough to easily take wherever you feel like recording.

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

...

One disconcerting thing I've seen mentioned was that some of the DAWs won't import 32 bit float. That could be a serious drawback. I use Reaper exclusively and don't know if it will permit 32 bit float files to be used.
...

REAPER handles 32 bit float with no problem. So does Edius.

Fran

[Rudy4]

Thank you, Fran.

That's good to know in case I end up picking up one of these R4 recorders.

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

REAPER handles 32 bit float with no problem. So does Edius.

Fran

Good to know. That must be a recent upgrade, as on the Reaper group page someone was just complaining about not being able to import 32bit files. Apparently the R4 can export in 16 and 24bit as well, but I don't know if the files may be "corrupt" if clipping would have occurred at the time of recording?

Bouncing the tracks is almost too simple to believe. You press the "bounce" button. You are given the option of a quick bounce or full bounce, which occurs in real time allowing you to use the sliders to adjust the recorded (bounced) level to the bounced track. That is really the only real use of the sliders that I can see. I think they were mainly put there to give the impression of a real mixer. Sliders seem to sell.

A nice feature that I haven't truly appreciated yet, is that all tracks are saved in native form, so you can always import them into a DAW and work with the raw recordings, even if they were bounced at some point. I think you can also export the bounce track to a DAW, but not sure why you would do that.

I don't love it yet, but liking it more and more. Maybe its the lack of stereo mics that keep me from loving it? But I prefer to use my WA84 pair anyway....

[TBman]

I use the Zoom F3. It's 32 bit also, very compact and perfect for someone like me that just records and then transfers the files to a pc for EQ and editing.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by TBman

I use the Zoom F3. It's 32 bit also, very compact and perfect for someone like me that just records and then transfers the files to a pc for EQ and editing.

Zoom is on a bit of a quest to find the perfect blend of technology combined with an EASY user interface. I look at the R4 as a progression upward from their R12, with color touch screen & "transport" controls like an old cassette recorder. There have been many comments from actual purchasers as well as potential purchasers about "essential" user features that they removed from earlier models when they rolled out the R12.

The R4 is an admirable new model, especially considering its under $200 price point.

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Zoom is on a bit of a quest to find the perfect blend of technology combined with an EASY user interface. I look at the R4 as a progression upward from their R12, with color touch screen & "transport" controls like an old cassette recorder. There have been many comments from actual purchasers as well as potential purchasers about "essential" user features that they removed from earlier models when they rolled out the R12.

The R4 is an admirable new model, especially considering its under $200 price point.

I opted for the R20 over the 12 for the larger touchscreen. I find it not as useful or friendly as hoped for. Much of the “pinch squeeze” functions I find tedious on that sized screen, and prefer using my laptop’s full screen and mouse or trackpad. If I want delicate fingerpicking, I prefer a guitar over any device! Cell phones are different. Slightly larger, but for me the real difference is holding it in one hand and pecking with the other. Makes it much easier that laying stationary on a desk and pecking and pinching…

The R4 did away with touchscreens, and is all mechanical interface. I suspect that was customer survey and market analysis driven.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by dnf777

I opted for the R20 over the 12 for the larger touchscreen. I find it not as useful or friendly as hoped for. Much of the “pinch squeeze” functions I find tedious on that sized screen, and prefer using my laptop’s full screen and mouse or trackpad. If I want delicate fingerpicking, I prefer a guitar over any device! Cell phones are different. Slightly larger, but for me the real difference is holding it in one hand and pecking with the other. Makes it much easier that laying stationary on a desk and pecking and pinching…

The R4 did away with touchscreens, and is all mechanical interface. I suspect that was customer survey and market analysis driven.

I think you're 100% correct on that.

I previously owned the Zoom R24, primarily for being able to record small acoustic bands. The 8 inputs are very useful, if not essential, for that use. I purchased the R20 to serve that same purpose as well as doing a few of my own projects. The R20 has better lower noise preamps, a very nice feature, but there's another feature that I think the display is hugely helpful for. That feature is the visual reference for "ghost fader" positions for the additional channels beyond the "eight" that are presently selected. How Zoom uses faders to control additional "banks" of channels often causes users confusion, even up to the point of thinking their recorder is malfunctioning! It's necessary to own and use one of these machines to easily grasp why an actual alternate bank channel has no relation to the actual fader position, but I digress. The new display shows all those previously "invisible" positions in the mixer mode screen, something that makes the new display truly worth the money.

The new display is also useful to "slide" a newly recorded track to a new track position, meaning you don't have to physically move your cables to a new input for overdubs. That's also a big plus, but ends up being a different method to do the same thing I previously used their simple "track swap" buttons for.

I see both advantages and disadvantages to the Zoom R4, but I see a lot of usefulness for my variety of "easy chair recording" that I'm fond of doing. I would always end up transferring tracks to my PC for editing / mixing in my DAW. I like that Zoom assumes that is how most users will end up using the R4.

The single omni mic actually sounds pretty good on the demo videos I've seen it used on, so it would be really easy for someone to use the built in omni mic for their guitar while using another mic for vocal in input nimber 2. This would be a really inexpensive way for a new recordist to play with seperate guitar / vocal recording, or even stereo guitar micing.

In any case, I'm looking forward to you getting some more time with your R4 and reporting back on your likes / dislikes.

[GoPappy]

Please excuse my ignorance on this topic, but why would someone pick the R4 over the Zoom H4n or H6, or vice versa? I'm looking for a simple home recording solution for pretty basic recordings for voice and acoustic guitar, and wondering if one or the other of these products (or neither of them) might be appropriate to start out with.

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by GoPappy

Please excuse my ignorance on this topic, but why would someone pick the R4 over the Zoom H4n or H6, or vice versa? I'm looking for a simple home recording solution for pretty basic recordings for voice and acoustic guitar, and wondering if one or the other of these products (or neither of them) might be appropriate to start out with.

I dont have the other Zooms, but I dont think they have multi-tracking ability, whereas the R4 does.

[anton]

Im confused by the no gain part. How does that work with a source that is louder or quieter? There is probably some aspect of 32 bit recording i don’t understand