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  #31  
Old 09-01-2013, 10:01 PM
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Bern Bern is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian View Post
Please define "traditional jazz sound" ?
I'm curious to hear the answer as well.
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  #32  
Old 09-01-2013, 10:06 PM
Paikon Paikon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bern View Post
I'm curious to hear the answer as well.
the answer is my first sentence of my previous comment....its that middy sound with rolled off (?) trebles
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  #33  
Old 09-01-2013, 10:12 PM
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Sorry Paikon, I have no idea what that means. Find a Youtube video which has someone play with the sound you're talking about.
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  #34  
Old 09-01-2013, 10:13 PM
Paikon Paikon is offline
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Originally Posted by Bern View Post
Sorry Paikon, I have no idea what that means. Find a Youtube video which has someone play with the sound you're talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owM_CFOr2kI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THmhS44zG2s
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  #35  
Old 09-01-2013, 10:13 PM
RobertForman RobertForman is offline
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guitars have had a role in jazz, but nowhere near the role of brass instruments or even the piano, guitars are sort of secondary in the history of jazz.

that said, I do not believe jazz or even guitar jazz has a specific tone or timbre, jazz is more typically characterized by a swing rhythm and flatted or blue notes, complex chord structures.

in terms of guitars in jazz - there are guitars in big bands basically doing a choppy type rhythm, there is bossa nova type guitar playing, then there is that soft mid range sort of bland electric archtop tone that I do not favor. Sonny Sharrock was pretty awesome since he put some edginess into his sound.

but yeah there is no typical or singular traditional jazz sound or even a traditional guitar jazz sound, it's all over the map really.
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  #36  
Old 09-01-2013, 10:18 PM
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I think many view Wes Montgomery or Kenny Burrell as a 'traditional jazz tone' and I knew what you meant. Still, you can't exclude Joe Pass, Metheny, Hall, and a hundred others with a kaleidoscope of tones. So, there's probably not a single phrase to get everyone on the same page. Sometimes easier to refer to a player or to a setup.
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  #37  
Old 09-01-2013, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertForman View Post

that said, I do not believe jazz or even guitar jazz has a specific tone or timbre, jazz is more typically characterized by a swing rhythm and flatted or blue notes, complex chord structures.
This is really only true of jazz influenced by bop (which is to say the vast majority of jazz being played by modern jazz musicians). Swing, which is more or less what I play, uses mainly 6th chords and, IMO, should NOT swing in the modern usage of the term "swing." The rhythm of swing bands from the 1930's is pretty much straight, hence the "choppy" sound people often talk about when discussing swing bands.

I play swing on a Martin 000-28VS right now and while it sounds great on solos, for rhythm what I really need is something drier, an instrument with focus on the fundamental and with quick decay. I would say that my current guitar is actually the polar opposite of what constitutes a good jazz archtop.
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  #38  
Old 09-02-2013, 12:34 AM
Apprentice Apprentice is offline
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While I think the guitarist matters the most, I would want to have a nice guitar if I were to play professionally. I think the cost of building quality guitars has gotten cheaper, and there are many options available now... Some swear by Eastman and Peerless... My first serious jazzbox was Stromberg Montreux, which I picked up from a local craigslist for like $500. Nice setup, nice neck, and nice Kent Armstrong pickups. Can't complain. Yes, I would call my Stromberg a professional level guitar, while I may have hard time calling some of the lower end Artcores that.
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  #39  
Old 09-02-2013, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by posternutbag View Post
T<snip> I really need is something drier, an instrument with focus on the fundamental and with quick decay. <snip>
What I would choose for an acoustic to channel Eddie Lang is quite different than what I would show up with to an institution of higher learning to study jazz guitar.
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  #40  
Old 09-02-2013, 01:17 AM
posternutbag posternutbag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook View Post
What I would choose for an acoustic to channel Eddie Lang is quite different than what I would show up with to an institution of higher learning to study jazz guitar.
Yes. I understand your point. I posted another question on this forum based on the answers given here that I think more accurately reflects the question I am trying to ask.
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  #41  
Old 09-02-2013, 06:22 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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Food for thought:

Humbuckers weren't standard on Gibson archtops til late1957 or so.

A lot of 'traditional' jazz tones are quite bright.
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  #42  
Old 09-02-2013, 02:47 PM
posternutbag posternutbag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
Food for thought:

Humbuckers weren't standard on Gibson archtops til late1957 or so.

A lot of 'traditional' jazz tones are quite bright.
My current thinking is to mount a Lollar Charlie Christian pickup on something like a Eastman AR805 (the non cutaway version with no factory pickup).
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  #43  
Old 09-02-2013, 03:30 PM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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Could sound good. Personally I'd never put a CC on a solid topped guitar. They're heavy and will really deaden the acoustic output...not to mention that the trad CC pickup involves three screws in the top...yikes!

now, jason lollar could probably make (if he doesn't already) a p90 sized blade pickup...and then that fifth avenue looks pretty darn good again.
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  #44  
Old 09-02-2013, 06:04 PM
Paikon Paikon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
Food for thought:

Humbuckers weren't standard on Gibson archtops til late1957 or so.

A lot of 'traditional' jazz tones are quite bright.

I see what you are saying but even for Gibson tradition favors humbuckers since they are using them the last 55years for jazz tone
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  #45  
Old 09-09-2013, 06:44 AM
coreybox coreybox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by posternutbag View Post
IMO, should NOT swing in the modern usage of the term "swing." The rhythm of swing bands from the 1930's is pretty much straight, hence the "choppy" sound people often talk about when discussing swing bands.
The 1/8 notes still swing.... but the bass and guitar pretty much play 100% 1/4 notes (and thus don't really have a swinging rhythm).
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