Lyric vs. K&K weight

Tnfiddler · #1 09-22-2020, 08:11 PM

My new bourgeois dread Has the LR baggs lyric pick up system installed in it. I really do not like any pick up system that has a 9 V battery bag inside the body of the guitar, but my main concern is how much sound dampening the lyric microphone causes being attached to the bridge plate. Do you guys and gals think the top would vibrate more freely if I pulled it out and put a K&K system in, Or do you think it would be so Small of an amount that it would even be noticeable?

ChrisE · #2 09-22-2020, 08:23 PM

I have the Lyric in my D-18 and and K&K in my HD-28. I really can’t tell that the sound of either changed at all when I installed them. I’m not able to discern any weight difference.

They both sound great, but I maybe like the Lyric a little better.

Petty1818 · #3 09-22-2020, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

My new bourgeois dread Has the LR baggs lyric pick up system installed in it. I really do not like any pick up system that has a 9 V battery bag inside the body of the guitar, but my main concern is how much sound dampening the lyric microphone causes being attached to the bridge plate. Do you guys and gals think the top would vibrate more freely if I pulled it out and put a K&K system in, Or do you think it would be so Small of an amount that it would even be noticeable?

Did the guitar come with the pickup installed? If so, how can you tell that it’s dampening the top? Honestly, I am shocked that you notice any impact. The Lyric is insanely lightweight. The K&K might be a bit lighter but if you like the tone of the lyric, I would just leave it. One quick experiment would be to simply pull the lyric off and put the strings back on and see if you notice any differences.

Planemaker · #4 09-22-2020, 10:14 PM

I have had both, Lyric in my Hummingbird and K&K currently in my Advanced Jumbo. Honestly they are both excellent in reproduction of what your guitar actually sounds like in my experience.
I would prefer the Lyric in what guitar comes next down the pipe just to regain volume control again at the soundhole.

llew · #5 09-23-2020, 05:42 AM

I guess you can make arguments both ways. I had a Lyric in an older D-18 that I no longer own and like it pretty well. But like you, I prefer to have the minimal amount of hardware inside the body of my guitars. I have the K&K Mini in my guitars. I do use Baggs Session DI with them instead of the Pure XLR K&K preamp but that's just personal preference. Regarding the weight issue...the Lyric would have to weigh a little more with the 9V battery and volume control but the actual difference would be difficult to tell once installed.

Tnfiddler · #6 09-23-2020, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Did the guitar come with the pickup installed? If so, how can you tell that it’s dampening the top? Honestly, I am shocked that you notice any impact. The Lyric is insanely lightweight. The K&K might be a bit lighter but if you like the tone of the lyric, I would just leave it. One quick experiment would be to simply pull the lyric off and put the strings back on and see if you notice any differences.

It was already installed. I'm just really curious about the mass/weight difference and if it would dampen the overall volume/tone of the guitar.

ljguitar · #7 09-23-2020, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

My new bourgeois dread Has the LR baggs lyric pick up system installed in it. I really do not like any pick up system that has a 9 V battery bag inside the body of the guitar, but my main concern is how much sound dampening the lyric microphone causes being attached to the bridge plate. Do you guys and gals think the top would vibrate more freely if I pulled it out and put a K&K system in, Or do you think it would be so Small of an amount that it would even be noticeable?

Hi Tn-f

I once had a dual source Baggs pickup with an LB-6 pickup (brass blank with 6 piezos embedded plus topped by micarta) and an internal preamp velcroed to the back of the guitar. When I had it removed I weighed it, and it was nearly 6 ounces of 'stuff' (without the 9v battery).

I had the saddle replaced with bone, and all that 'stuff' removed, and it made a huge impact on sound.

I went with K&K dual source rigs in all my guitars which weigh less than 2 ounces total (pickup plus mic). Several people commented on my guitar sounding better acoustically after the surgery (without me asking). I had thought it was better, but it's hard to evaluate from behind the guitar.

When I recently upscaled to a ToneDexter driving it with the K&K Pure mini - I left the mics there as backup incase I ever have to send the ToneDexter for service work.

I'm not sure if you'd benefit sonically or not with switching those two rigs. I just made up my mind decades ago that there would be no more batteries inside my guitars.

Dampening could occur if something was not 'tight' in the bridge area. Otherwise, it would be adding (weight/mass/sustain?) to the bridge.

Ken Carr · #8 09-23-2020, 09:49 AM

The Lyric does not weigh enough in my opinion to make a discernable sonic impact to the soundboard. I have a Lyric in my Huss and Dalton OM. It sounds great with Tech 21 Q-strip for EQ. It does not sound good without good EQ. I have the K&K in my grand concert. It sounds great with the Tonedexter. Both setups sound very natural. With the K&K, I have to roll off almost all of the bass and boost the treble a little bit to get the optimal sound for my taste. I don't know which system I prefer. I suppose one benefit of the K&K/Tonedexter combination is that it is much less susceptible to feedback than the Lyric. If you are not playing at high volume levels, this is really not an issue. Another benefit is the built-in tuner and mute switch. One benefit of the Lyric is the built-in volume wheel. With both pickups, you really need an extra piece of outboard gear to make it sound excellent. Because I don't gig out of the house, I don't really have enough practical stage experience with either to say how they compare in a gig situation.

Br1ck · #9 09-23-2020, 12:27 PM

I would not replace one for the other, mainly because these are the two pickups I've owned that I've liked the least. The Lyric has no low end to speak of, and the K&K needs massive low end roll off, as well as mid help too.

Do yourself a favor and get Dazzos and pair it with a simple linear pre like a RedEye or SunnAudio Stage 1.

Doug Young · #10 09-23-2020, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

My new bourgeois dread Has the LR baggs lyric pick up system installed in it. I really do not like any pick up system that has a 9 V battery bag inside the body of the guitar, but my main concern is how much sound dampening the lyric microphone causes being attached to the bridge plate. Do you guys and gals think the top would vibrate more freely if I pulled it out and put a K&K system in, Or do you think it would be so Small of an amount that it would even be noticeable?

The K&K weighs less, I'd say, but both are negligible, and I'd be astonished if anyone could hear the difference acoustically between either one or having no pickup. The wires probably exert more pull on the top with either one than the pickups themselves.

Plugged in, those are pretty different pickups, even tho both are basically soundboard transducer-type pickups. The main complaint many people have about the Lyric is a lack of bass, but the people I know who have been happiest with it are those with Dreads, where bass is usually not in short supply. On the other hand, the complaint about K&Ks from some people is too much bass, which may become even more of an issue with a bassy guitar. But it's all a matter of taste. One nice thing about the Dazzo's that someone recommended is that there are different models that basically correspond to bass response, so you can tune them for your guitar.

Tnfiddler · #11 09-23-2020, 01:59 PM

Thanks for the replies! I'm pretty sure I'm gonna take out the lyric due to the fact that I DON'T want batteries inside my guitar, because they always seem to go dead at the most inopportune time!! I've got to check out the Dazzos.

Ken Carr · #12 09-23-2020, 08:51 PM

I will add this. If you like the sound and performance of the Lyric, I don't think having a battery in your box should discourage you from keeping it. The battery does last a long time, especially if you unplug it when you're not playing it. If you replace the battery every six months, you will not have to worry about it.

ChrisE · #13 09-24-2020, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Carr

I will add this. If you like the sound and performance of the Lyric, I don't think having a battery in your box should discourage you from keeping it. The battery does last a long time, especially if you unplug it when you're not playing it. If you replace the battery every six months, you will not have to worry about it.

I agree. I play a lot of gigs and usually change the battery in the Lyric about once every 12 months. Six months would probably be better, but the point is that the battery lasts a long time.

martingitdave · #14 09-24-2020, 09:24 PM

It's a very small difference in weight on the sound board. I've had both pickups. I could "hear" the weight of the lyric in a very lightly braced Martin one time. The other times I used it, there was no appreciable difference. The install you have is very well done by the factory. If you like the sound of the pickup, I would leave it. The K&K sounds fine, but a well installed Lyric can sound great.