CONFOUNDMENT

I'm asking this for a proverbial friend. He has a guitar that has a strange feature: At the end of the fretboard, just before the sound hole the treble e is 1/8 from the edge of the board--the bass e is 1/4" from the edge. Has anyone ever seen this before?

The guitar has fine intonation and plays well, but the strings are clearly not centered. Any thoughts?

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by EvanB

I'm asking this for a proverbial friend. He has a guitar that has a strange feature: At the end of the fretboard, just before the sound hole the treble e is 1/8 from the edge of the board--the bass e is 1/4" from the edge. Has anyone ever seen this before?
The guitar has fine intonation and plays well, but the strings are clearly not centered. Any thoughts?

I have seen this before, but the other way around - 1st string inset a little more than the 6th. The 1st string is less likely to be pulled off the end of the fret like this, and the 6th string is a little easier to get to for fretting with the thumb.

Both my Emerald X20s are actually set up this way, but nowhere near an 1/8” difference.

I don’t know why your friend’s guitar would be like this, though. Not something I’d expect on a higher end instrument like a Savoy, but it wouldn’t surprise me on a lower end Ovation. For example, of course

[iluvguitars2005]

my v3 emerald x7 had that issue, where the treble e was significantly closer to the edge than the bass e. It honestly drove me nuts as i would constantly pull the string off when fretting since I paid attention to it more, eventually just sold it and moved to a v2 that was a much better match all around.

David;

Astute, as usual. The question is, what would you do presuming it was a top of the line instrument?

Iluv;

Yes, it is something that once noticed becomes increasingly irritating. My friend is not likely to sell the guitar since he is embarrassingly candid and can't see anyone buying a guitar with an ad that reads "Expensive Guitar With A High E That Flops Off The Fretboard." He is more likely to make an attempt to sell it back to the seller or (worse case scenario) just send it to the maker as a gift, an instrument that should not be floating around. It would be a monetary loss but less an irritant than hanging on to it.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by EvanB

David;

Astute, as usual. The question is, what would you do presuming it was a top of the line instrument?

If I'd received it new configured like that, I'd be on the phone to the dealer and/or manufacturer. If it had come to me used, I'd be looking at the seller's return policy.

As you say, it sounds like one that should not have been let out. I wonder if any kind of repair might be possible? Most likely the bridge is misaligned.

My thinking exactly. It was not new and the seller will be approached. And yes, it looks like the bridge is just a hair off--not sure if the maker would do a free fix or if that would end up costing yet more money and time.

[btbliatout]

Originally Posted by David Eastwood

I have seen this before, but the other way around - 1st string inset a little more than the 6th. The 1st string is less likely to be pulled off the end of the fret like this, and the 6th string is a little easier to get to for fretting with the thumb.

Both my Emerald X20s are actually set up this way, but nowhere near an 1/8” difference.

I don’t know why your friend’s guitar would be like this, though. Not something I’d expect on a higher end instrument like a Savoy, but it wouldn’t surprise me on a lower end Ovation. For example, of course

This inspired me to measure my Emerald X20. I have a Nylon with a 52mm wide neck, and 12 frets to the body. At the 12th fret, the Low E is ~3.5mm in from the edge of the neck, and the High E is ~5.0mm in from the other edge of the neck. I agree that this seems like a solid design call. Pull-offs always tug downwards, not upwards (as do some of my poorly executed hammer-ons), so putting some extra space where it's needed makes all the sense in the world.

The opposite set up seems like it might be good for a lefty. But I imagine if the originally referenced guitar was actually left-handed, it would have been mentioned.

[Kray Van Kirk]

I actually deal with this now and then with my guitars. Both of them have necks that are bolted on, and every now and then an airline will get too rambunctious and things get knocked slightly out of alignment. It drives me nuts. But I carry a torque wrench and have the force adjusted as per the luthier, and if necessary, I can, with great trepidation and anxiety, slightly loosen the nut and gently tap things back into alignment. I think a good repair tech or luthier would do this without hesitation or qualm because that's their work and business and they're good at it. It just makes me want to hide under the sofa.

David; I, too, think that the bridge is misaligned, but I'm not sure how that would be fixed. I've had no experience with ball-end strings but would think that moving the bridge would create a wide gap in the face of the guitar, one that might allow a ball to wallow around. It might be better to change the bridge from ball-string to string tie???

Kray; As my response to David indicates, I think the problem is at the other end of the fret board, at the bridge.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by EvanB

David; I, too, think that the bridge is misaligned, but I'm not sure how that would be fixed. I've had no experience with ball-end strings but would think that moving the bridge would create a wide gap in the face of the guitar, one that might allow a ball to wallow around. It might be better to change the bridge from ball-string to string tie???

I assume we’re talking about the Savoy here? I can conceive of a number of ways to correct this, but I’m not a tech, so I won’t voice any of them here. Suffice it to say that moving things sideways (to correct alignment issues) is rather harder that moving things longitudinally (to correct intonation). I’d imagine you *might* be able to effect some correction by notching the saddle to move the strings sideways a bit, but mechanically that’s always seemed a bit suspect to me.

Otherwise, I think your best resort is to contact the builder, especially if you’re leaning toward hanging on to this guitar.

Kray; As my response to David indicates, I think the problem is at the other end of the fret board, at the bridge.

I think Kray is actually talking about correcting the same thing when a bolt-on neck becomes misaligned. I’ve experience this with electric guitars with a bolt-on neck - in the traditional version of those joints (Fender-style), there’s usually enough slack in the works to allow the neck to be rotated about the joint to correct this kind of alignment issue.

David;

I've had very little experience with bolt-on necks and had no idea they could lead to misalignment. Thank you and Kray for new information.

My friend has the assumed guitar and clearly plans on keeping it (once fixed) and the instrument has been shipped to the maker. Pretty exciting stuff.

I've had a lot of experience with and a high regard for the maker in question. He received the guitar and responded immediately--the guitar will be repaired at no cost. He is an honorable, as well as creative, man.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by EvanB

I've had a lot of experience with and a high regard for the maker in question. He received the guitar and responded immediately--the guitar will be repaired at no cost. He is an honorable, as well as creative, man.

Excellent.

Any particular reason why you’re being so coy about who the maker actually is?

Yes. I dislike it when someone uses the forum in an attempt to pressure a maker or dealer to some outcome. I know that sometimes the best way to get some action is to engage in public shaming, but I'd prefer direct conversation.

My coyness is an attempt to use the forum for information and suggestions without ad hominin overtones. As you have noted, however, I am shallow enough that a discerning forum member knows who and what I'm talking about.

The proverbial approach was not really needed as I could have just dealt directly with the maker. But I like the sober judgments found here and they helped in my decision making. In short, coy got me there. Thank you.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by EvanB

Yes. I dislike it when someone uses the forum in an attempt to pressure a maker or dealer to some outcome. I know that sometimes the best way to get some action is to engage in public shaming, but I'd prefer direct conversation.

My coyness is an attempt to use the forum for information and suggestions without ad hominin overtones. As you have noted, however, I am shallow enough that a discerning forum member knows who and what I'm talking about.

The proverbial approach was not really needed as I could have just dealt directly with the maker. But I like the sober judgments found here and they helped in my decision making. In short, coy got me there. Thank you.

I could not agree more. The generic approach is always preferable to taking pot shots.

Looking forward to hearing good things about the resolution.