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Old 07-09-2021, 01:43 PM
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Default Do you use your DAW's mastering features or a separate plug-in?

Just curious. I use Reaper as my DAW. I downloaded the Elements version of the Izotope mastering plug-in Ozone 9 ($19). My first pass with it was less than impressive but I need to work with it some more.

The standard and advanced versions of Ozone have impressive features but wonder if it's overkill for mastering acoustic solo guitar beyond what Reaper offers.
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Old 07-09-2021, 01:57 PM
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What is there to master? For solo guitar anything left for mastering beyond using your software effects and volume levels?

The online mastering before and after examples I have heard only seemed to be about raising the volume level.

Get it to where you like the sound in the DAW and export the music to a wav or other uncompressed audio file type.
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Old 07-09-2021, 02:12 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SprintBob View Post
Do you use your DAW's mastering features or a separate plug-in?
I'm not sure what this question means. Do some DAWs have "mastering features"?

I use Pro Tools and there are no "mastering features" that I'm aware of. When I master a track, I import the stereo mix track to a stereo audio track on which I'll generally use the UAD Curve Bender, my outboard Clariphonic, and Ozone 8 Advanced's Maximizer as my limiter.

I also set up a Master track on which I put an instance of Levels by Mastering the Mix.

Other tools come into it if/as needed but that's my typical starting point.
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Old 07-09-2021, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
I'm not sure what this question means. Do some DAWs have "mastering features"?

I use Pro Tools and there are no "mastering features" that I'm aware of. When I master a track, I import the stereo mix track to a stereo audio track on which I'll generally use the UAD Curve Bender, my outboard Clariphonic, and Ozone 8 Advanced's Maximizer as my limiter.

I also set up a Master track on which I put an instance of Levels by Mastering the Mix.

Other tools come into it if/as needed but that's my typical starting point.
You can do all that in the DAW (as you apparently do). Wouldn't call that mastering. Personally I don't use a limiter as I
don't have a desire to push things to the volume limit. Personally I don't use compression to compact the dynamics. If
you really want maximum volume (uncompressed) you can just look at the volume meter and/or check for overs.
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Old 07-09-2021, 02:41 PM
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Mastering in the context of a single solo fingerstyle guitar tune is pretty much a non-event. You set your levels, EQ to taste, add reverb, and you're done. For the most part that's "mixing", tho there's often not much to "mix" with solo guitar - reverb, perhaps. (It can get quite involved tho in some cases, so it just depends on what you want.)

Ozone sells itself as a mastering tool, but it's really just a collection of useful tools, EQ, compression, limiting, stereo imaging, exciters, and a few others. I like it and generally use it, tho I've been moving toward other 3rd party plugins for most of that. Most DAWs have those things included, so it's primarily a workflow and choice of whose buttons you like, perhaps a nice feature or two, and perhaps some sonic difference, tho that's likely to be subtle.

Where mastering comes in for solo guitar is usually at the CD final packaging level. The mastering engineer can assemble the CD, adjust levels between songs, maybe do some EQ, adjust spacing between songs, add metadata, CD Text, ISRC codes, etc. You can also do all this stuff yourself - the biggest benefit IMHO is having a 2nd set of ears on your tracks, preferably someone familiar with the genre who can act as a final QA step to make sure your release is consistent with what else is out there. The mastering engineers I have used have better studios than I have, with phenomenally lower noise floors, better monitors and have sent me back tracks, saying "listen to the edit at 3:04, is that what you want?", or pointing out a noise that I missed. That's the additional ears at work, kind of like having a proof-reader.
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Old 07-09-2021, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SprintBob View Post
Just curious. I use Reaper as my DAW. I downloaded the Elements version of the Izotope mastering plug-in Ozone 9 ($19). My first pass with it was less than impressive but I need to work with it some more.

The standard and advanced versions of Ozone have impressive features but wonder if it's overkill for mastering acoustic solo guitar beyond what Reaper offers.
I don't do solo acoustic guitar And I am not familiar with Reapers bundled plugin set .

For my mastering (if you can call it that ) I would call it getting ready to publish to SoundCloud or Youtube.

I just use the bundled Pro tools plugins although I do like the Massey L2007 (look ahead limiter ) and the Golden Master...
Massy plugins are available only in the AAX format for Pro Tools
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Old 07-09-2021, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
I'm not sure what this question means. Do some DAWs have "mastering features"?

I use Pro Tools and there are no "mastering features" that I'm aware of. When I master a track, I import the stereo mix track to a stereo audio track on which I'll generally use the UAD Curve Bender, my outboard Clariphonic, and Ozone 8 Advanced's Maximizer as my limiter.

I also set up a Master track on which I put an instance of Levels by Mastering the Mix.

Other tools come into it if/as needed but that's my typical starting point.
The only Major DAW I know of that claims to have a specific set of bundled mastering features, is Studio One
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Old 07-09-2021, 02:56 PM
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Bob, do you mean the "Master Assistant?" I've used it frequently in the past, lately not so much. I just use the Dynamic Eq of Ozone 8 as a plugin to boost the mids a bit. It's fun to fool around with the different settings though.

I'm sure there are built in FX tools that Reaper has that do the same thing.
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Old 07-09-2021, 03:01 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
You can do all that in the DAW (as you apparently do). Wouldn't call that mastering. Personally I don't use a limiter as I
don't have a desire to push things to the volume limit. Personally I don't use compression to compact the dynamics. If
you really want maximum volume (uncompressed) you can just look at the volume meter and/or check for overs.
What is "mastering" is a can of worms since there are going to be varying opinions regarding the definition. But I'm comfortable arguing that what I'm doing is mastering since I'm taking a two-track mix from the mix engineer and doing the final work on the track to get it ready for cd and/or streaming release.

I try to avoid compression when mastering preferring instead to use volume automation where possible. It's a bit more time consuming but I usually prefer the results.
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Old 07-09-2021, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
Bob, do you mean the "Master Assistant?" I've used it frequently in the past, lately not so much. I just use the Dynamic Eq of Ozone 8 as a plugin to boost the mids a bit. It's fun to fool around with the different settings though.

I'm sure there are built in FX tools that Reaper has that do the same thing.
I've never had any luck with the mastering assistant. It's usually way over-hyped. Maybe it works better on band-type mixes, but usually these auto-mix things are more of a toy than anything else.. There are some useful things in Ozone, tho. Dynamic EQ is a big one for sure, very useful on solo guitar. You can also set it to show the volume in LUFS, and can automatically set the limiter to the right threshold to achieve a certain LUFS - so you can target your levels for you tube or spotify, etc (which have published LUFS targets). The spectral shaper can be nice at taming harsh notes (tho I've switched to Soothe2 for this, which is very impressive). The Exciter can be useful. The Stereo Imager works nicely. I don't know if you can do those things in Reaper.
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Old 07-09-2021, 03:51 PM
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Non-expert, but frequent "publisher" of audio publicly as part of my project. I know sort of what I want when I master, and I think I have learned more over the years. But when Doug Young, Bob Womack, or the like speak, (and Doug already has) listen twice to them. Mine is only a data point. Perhaps I'll bring up some things that the more knowledgeable folks here deal with.

I agree just solo acoustic guitar is less challenging to master a lot of mixes. I used to care that I had narrowed dynamic range to the point that delicate parts could be heard played back an average car in traffic. I no longer do that routinely. I know folks do stream in cars, but I don't drive much nowadays and I've let that color my expectations. I do check my masters against earbuds as well as on my monitor speakers, and I don't use noise isolation earbuds, though I'm not really testing them in say a noisy sidewalk environment.

Mastering to sound good in a quiet space is the gold standard, but the less ideal environments is the iron & steel environment where many potential listeners will listen. There are professional recordings that I loved that I could not listen to in the car or in a semi-public at any level tolerable to others because the beautiful quiet parts would be inaudible or the loud parts would be unpleasant to others.

When I cared about car listening, I would use mild to moderate limiting even on solo acoustic guitar. I can hear that on my old masters (as a defect, or at least as a less than ideal sound), and I now try to stay at no more than mild limiting.

I record in other DAWs, but mix and produce the pre-master stereo track in Adobe Audition because I've used it for so long and have become accustomed to it. I'm not a huge fan (or knowledgeable) about reverb compared to some here. I often commit to reverb in Logic when I use it to record and export the stems for Audition already "wet." When I record in ProTools the tracks are dry and I apply reverb in the mixing stage in Audition. I almost never apply reverb while mastering.

I didn't used to put anything on the final stereo output mix bus when mixing. I now sometimes use Izotope Tonal Balance along with Neutron plugins there, but that tends to be on busier mixes, not ones where solo acoustic guitar is the only instrument. Neutron has features that help me carve out space in a mix for an instrument or figure out where the problems in a busy mix are coming from. I try to leave some headroom in what comes out of that final mix, at least -3db.

Once I have the stereo mix I will sometimes find momentary "spikes" in the waveform and I'll zoom in and manually duck those -2 or -3 db or so.

I master stand-alone in Ozone, one of the pricier packages (Advanced I think), concentrating on the Maximizer plug in most of the time. I use the included LUFTs meter (Insight) in and try to get a level that just barely hits the limiter on the loudest stuff and my audio isn't even crossing Ozone's "Threshold" for the average levels. I will use EQ features in Ozone, particularly when I haven't dealt with EQ at the mix stage well enough, or when the slight narrowing of dynamic range I'm achieving has changed the apparent EQ balance. I aim for LUFT in the -15 to -16 range, and if I'm lower (louder) than that, I trim, backing the input volume, and readjust.

That's what I do anyway.
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Old 07-09-2021, 04:00 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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I use Cubase as my DAW using a Windows based PC. Cubase does have a rudimentary mastering plugin, but I use Izotope Ozone, generally.

As Doug notes, the Mastering Assistant tends to be somewhat over-hyped, particularly for most things that I do (vocal and guitar). However, when I have done a fairly dense multi-track recording, then the Mastering Assistant seems to be a little more helpful. Even then, I tend to back off on the EQ recommendations and the overall compression as being a little too much for my tastes.

I do find it helpful to use Ozone for LUFS level setting. I have tried some other methods of mastering, but I have found that the overall sound from Ozone is pretty good, not overly hard-edged.

I have been pretty happy with Ozone.

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Old 07-09-2021, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
I master stand-alone in Ozone, one of the pricier packages (Advanced I think), concentrating on the Maximizer plug in most of the time. I use the included LUFTs meter (Insight) in and try to get a level that just barely hits the limiter on the loudest stuff and my audio isn't even crossing Ozone's "Threshold" for the average levels. I will use EQ features in Ozone, particularly when I haven't dealt with EQ at the mix stage well enough, or when the slight narrowing of dynamic range I'm achieving has changed the apparent EQ balance. I aim for LUFT in the -15 to -16 range, and if I'm lower (louder) than that, I trim, backing the input volume, and readjust.
This matches my approach. When I use compression, I'm not looking for audible or noticeable compression - in fact, it's way too easy to hear compression on solo acoustic guitar. Thats one of the biggest reasons to, if you're working with an external mastering engineer, to choose one familiar with the genre. I've heard examples of way overly compressed guitar from engineers used to working on rock mixes, and haven't listen to much (or any) solo guitar stuff. The mastering engineer I've used the most plays acoustic guitar himself and studied with Alex de Grassi, so I know he "gets it".

I tend to use the maximizer, whether it's Ozone or something else as just a convenient way to adjust to the LUFS target without noticeable compression. Maybe I get a half db or something, or the limiter knocks off a peak or two here and there, and that's it. With Ozone, you can see when the limiter is kicking in. I try to have to never have it show that it did anything, but my target level is hit. The Insight meters are nice, tho I've been using TC Electronics's meter, which I just find easy to grasp what's going on over time. But with Ozone, you can set it to automatically find the threshold for your target. I let it find it, then I generally back it off a bit from there.
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Old 07-09-2021, 05:02 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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As others have said, there's really not much to mastering a solo acoustic guitar piece, assuming it is already mixed well.

Studio One Professional has a feature called the "Project Page". Say you have recorded 10 solo acoustic guitar songs and you want to master them. You simply load the 10 songs into the Project Page and you can work on all 10 of them together. You can go back and forth between mixing the song if needed and mastering it along with the others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HkoTIfWLhQ
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Old 07-09-2021, 06:22 PM
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I might use Ozone's assistant, but for single instrument stuff, lately all I use is RX (9, standard). I always find tiny (TINY) things to edit, and I can even tackle L & R separately, if I want to. Then, I just use it for leveling (LUFS), which it seems to do just fine. I can insert an iZotope plugin if I want to, but in these cases, I've never seen the need.

p.s. 90% of what I do these days is just home-ish video stuff, and with the video quality I'm working with, audio "mastering" is primarily just a LUFS and cleanup exercise. It turns out that some video does not improve with pristine audio (IMHO), and most video really distracts, either because it's really good, or perhaps not, from critical listening. (Again, IMHO.)
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