zero fret guitar..setting fret clearances

[alembic1989]

I'm refretting my first zero fret guitar..50s framus archtop. How do I set the individual string clearances on the first fret? Is it a case of filing the zero fret until I get the right clearances...wouldn't that leave a series of flat spots on the zero fret?
I'm replacing the old fretwire with one with a higher crown, and it looks like I may need to replace the zero fret too.
How would I remove this fret..it is very close to the original wooden nut, so I can't get my fret pullers in there.
All help gratefully received

[donh]

People seem to overthink the zero fret for some reason.

*** It's just the same as all the other frets ***

Really.

Same fret wire, same fret height, same everything. Just as if you capo'd at one with a regular-built guitar.

Easy. (which always was the point)

If you are changing fret-wire sizes change them all, including the zero.

[alembic1989]

Originally Posted by donh

People seem to overthink the zero fret for some reason.

*** It's just the same as all the other frets ***

Really.

Same fret wire, same fret height, same everything. Just as if you capo'd at one with a regular-built guitar.

Easy. (which always was the point)

If you are changing fret-wire sizes change them all, including the zero.

Thank you....can the zero fret be removed without touching the nut...if so how?

[murrmac123]

You will need to remove the nut.

Even with your top-of-the-line fret leveling gear, you won''t manage to level the zero fret with the nut in place.

[alembic1989]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

You will need to remove the nut.

Even with your top-of-the-line fret leveling gear, you won''t manage to level the zero fret with the nut in place.

Thanks for that...

[Ned Milburn]

Just remember that open strings (nutted or zero-fretted) will vibrate a bit more strongly than the fretted notes, so you might want to leave some extra height in the zero fret just as is done with nut slots.

I'd never consider to refret a zero-fret guitar without also replacing the zero fret. You can leave the zero fret slightly higher by only hitting the 0-fret every 3rd or 5th stroke when you are grinding the frets level. Also, you can occasionally use a "pull stroke" when you are grinding, and start the pull stroke from the 1st fret rather than from the zero fret. Check the height of the zero fret regularly in the beginning with a straight edge to see if you are leaving it slightly higher than the other frets.

[redir]

I built a Selmer guitar a few months back and they have zero frets. What I did was install the zero fret after crowning all the other frets so it gave it a bit of a boost.

[alembic1989]

Originally Posted by redir

I built a Selmer guitar a few months back and they have zero frets. What I did was install the zero fret after crowning all the other frets so it gave it a bit of a boost.

That sounds like a good method , thanks.

[donh]

Originally Posted by alembic1989

Thank you....can the zero fret be removed without touching the nut...if so how?

Easy. Pop the nut out, replace the fret, level everything, lightly glue the spacer-nut back in.

Please understand that none of us *ever* carefully raise the fret that we place the capo just behind so we can play our guitar. We put the capo on and play the guitar. Really.

[alembic1989]

Originally Posted by donh

Easy. Pop the nut out, replace the fret, level everything, lightly glue the spacer-nut back in.

Please understand that none of us *ever* carefully raise the fret that we place the capo just behind so we can play our guitar. We put the capo on and play the guitar. Really.

You are right on all counts...thanks *really* :-)

[John Arnold]

Put another way...the nut height should be the same as the frets.
In spite of that, most of the zero frets I have encountered used slightly taller or larger fret wire in that position.

How do I set the individual string clearances on the first fret?

I never, ever measure the string clearance at the first fret. I check the nut height by pressing the string against the second fret, and look for clearance above the first fret. It should be miniscule.
If you believe my first statement (which is definitely true if you put a capo on the first fret), then string clearance over the first fret is purely a function of the action at the bridge and the relief. In other words, if you set the nut height correctly then do the other adjustments, the first fret clearance will take care of itself.

[alembic1989]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

Put another way...the nut height should be the same as the frets.
In spite of that, most of the zero frets I have encountered used slightly taller or larger fret wire in that position.

I never, ever measure the string clearance at the first fret. I check the nut height by pressing the string against the second fret, and look for clearance above the first fret. It should be miniscule.
If you believe my first statement (which is definitely true if you put a capo on the first fret), then string clearance over the first fret is purely a function of the action at the bridge and the relief. In other words, if you set the nut height correctly then do the other adjustments, the first fret clearance will take care of itself.

Thanks John...nicely explained..boy do I ever have a lot to learn.

[redir]

I tend to set the nut height a bit higher then the first fret on the bass side. Maybe due to my own playing style but in open tunings I hit the bass drone strings pretty hard so it's good to have the clearance.

[John Arnold]

I tend to set the nut height a bit higher then the first fret on the bass side. Maybe due to my own playing style but in open tunings I hit the bass drone strings pretty hard so it's good to have the clearance.

I also do, but for a different reason. The sixth string can have a sympathetic 'back buzz' when the capo is installed. Lifting that one string ever-so-slightly at the nut usually cures it, because the string is no longer contacting the frets when the capo is installed. I have only experienced back buzz in the sixth string.

[DanPanther]

My experience with Zero Frets has been, they are usually between .005"-.007" higher then the other frets. Not much.
Dan