Sunrise Preamp

[nweekes]

Hi folks,
I have a Sunrise pickup in a Collings OM1 into an AER Compact 60/3 amp. To clean up the frequencies on occasion, I also use an Empress ParaEQ. My room is small enough I have not needed a preamp.

I love my setup but I feel it lacks the bottom end. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks in advance,
Nathan

[loco gringo]

Originally Posted by nweekes

Hi folks,
I have a Sunrise pickup in a Collings OM1 into an AER Compact 60/3 amp. To clean up the frequencies on occasion, I also use an Empress ParaEQ. My room is small enough I have not needed a preamp.

I love my setup but I feel it lacks the bottom end. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks in advance,
Nathan

I ran a Sunrise in a guitar for quite a few years. I used the Sunrise preamp for a while. I eventually sold it. I ended up running it into a Steel Guitar Black Box into my SWR California Blond amp. This was quite a few years ago, well over 10. I got the idea from listening to Lyle Lovett's Collings with a Sunrise. He was using a Demeter tube DI. I think at the time, the Demeter was over $1K, out of my range. I think the Black Box was about $300 back then. I still have it and still use it. If you are an electric player, it makes electric guitar pickups fatter, too.

All that said, I don't know that it is going to give you more low end, unless maybe you have an impedance matching issue right now? Do you feel like you have less low end amplified than you do acoustically, like the amplification is robbing the low end?

[M Hayden]

The small Sunrise single-channel no-knob preamp seems to provide a very solid bass when used as the front end to a PA, at least for me.

[euraquilo]

Originally Posted by M Hayden

The small Sunrise single-channel no-knob preamp seems to provide a very solid bass when used as the front end to a PA, at least for me.

That was my experience as well. Plenty of low end for my taste.

[M Hayden]

Originally Posted by euraquilo

That was my experience as well. Plenty of low end for my taste.

Yeah, Jim Kaufman dialed in that design really well. Only change i made to it was to add an external pair of jacks backed with battery snaps so I could power it from a Voodoo power supply,

[loco gringo]

If it seemed like I was saying the Sunrise preamp didn't work or didn't provide low end, that isn't what I meant. It sounded good. I meant that I liked the SGBB better, but that was with my guitar, amp, etc.

I was just wondering what in the AER would be causing loss of low end? Are you using channel 1 or channel 2 for the guitar, or have you tried both? They show to have different input impedances, 2.2 Meg channel vs 1 Meg on channel 2 in line mode and much less in mic mode. I wonder if that makes a difference?

EDIT: Looks like the Sunrise SB1 preamp has 1 Meg ohm input. If you haven't tried it in channel 2 line mode, I think I would. I would be interested to hear if it makes a difference vs channel 1.

[varmonter]

I currently use a sunrise. It seems
To have plenty of low end. I have
The sb1 but dont use it anymore.
The sb1 and the sarno black box
Mentioned above are both great
Boxes. They "load" mag pups
And are more buffers than preamps.
The sarno also being a tube box
Adds some saturation which to my ear
Is just enough and not too much.
That,imho,is its superpower.
Also it has a variable impedance knob to
play with depending on what pickup
You use. You could also try raising
The pole piece on the sunrise to
Give you more bass..

[nweekes]

Originally Posted by loco gringo

I ran a Sunrise in a guitar for quite a few years. I used the Sunrise preamp for a while. I eventually sold it. I ended up running it into a Steel Guitar Black Box into my SWR California Blond amp. This was quite a few years ago, well over 10. I got the idea from listening to Lyle Lovett's Collings with a Sunrise. He was using a Demeter tube DI. I think at the time, the Demeter was over $1K, out of my range. I think the Black Box was about $300 back then. I still have it and still use it. If you are an electric player, it makes electric guitar pickups fatter, too.

All that said, I don't know that it is going to give you more low end, unless maybe you have an impedance matching issue right now? Do you feel like you have less low end amplified than you do acoustically, like the amplification is robbing the low end?

Thank you loco, I appreciate your advice.

I do not believe I have an impedance issue. I am not confident in that area but this so is the same setup (minus the EQ) to Mark Hanson (guitar Grammy Winner, teacher).

I will check out the Steel Black Box. Is it by Sarno?

[nweekes]

Originally Posted by varmonter

I currently use a sunrise. It seems

To have plenty of low end. I have

The sb1 but dont use it anymore.

The sb1 and the sarno black box

Mentioned above are both great

Boxes. They "load" mag pups

And are more buffers than preamps.

The sarno also being a tube box

Adds some saturation which to my ear

Is just enough and not too much.

That,imho,is its superpower.

Also it has a variable impedance knob to

play with depending on what pickup

You use. You could also try raising

The pole piece on the sunrise to

Give you more bass..

@varmonter

Thank you. I honestly did not think about adjusting the pole pieces for more bass. I’ve lowered them for the treble but not bass. Provably all I need.

[nweekes]

Originally Posted by M Hayden

The small Sunrise single-channel no-knob preamp seems to provide a very solid bass when used as the front end to a PA, at least for me.

@M Hayden

I keep debating buying the Sunrise buffer box I just don’t know if I need to boost 12dB.

Thanks for your advice.

[MrErikJ]

I have a Sunrise S2 and the SB1 buffer box and it does enhance the sound significantly. I don't know if it's essential, as I suspect another preamp with EQ could achieve similar results, but it is a simple (but expensive) solution.

Besides a gain boost, it does seem to enhance the bass and treble response, giving it a more "acoustic" eq. It may excite certain frequencies as the Sunrise sounds slightly more "steely" when run through the buffer. Before going for the box, I would adjust pole pieces first though.

[loco gringo]

Originally Posted by nweekes

Thank you loco, I appreciate your advice.

I do not believe I have an impedance issue. I am not confident in that area but this so is the same setup (minus the EQ) to Mark Hanson (guitar Grammy Winner, teacher).

I will check out the Steel Black Box. Is it by Sarno?

Yes it is by Sarno.

[Br1ck]

AER amps tend to sound great in a big room. I don't think a small room does them justice.

[Villamarzia]

Probably the cause could be also be searched in the room itself and the volume you push your AER to. Low end needs pressure to come through and if you have many reflecting objects in a small room (mirrors, windows etc), the highs might be predominant..

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by nweekes

@varmonter

Thank you. I honestly did not think about adjusting the pole pieces for more bass. I’ve lowered them for the treble but not bass. Provably all I need.

Just an add on ..I owned an aer c60-3 for awhile and they are a wonderful little guitar amp. I never thought they reproduced as much bass as I would have liked. But still
were very articulate in what they did reproduce. I found that simply placing it on the floor flat it seemed to add a bit more bass
..
Worth a try..