Rosewood question

Traikat · #1 08-14-2020, 06:54 PM

I have a question regarding having never owned a rosewood before, what should I be expecting when it opens up? I know this maybe a stupid question to some, but my experience is with Mahogany and I know what it sounds like when the guitar opens up. My particular guitar I have noticed rings from one note to another and my rosewood does not for right now. I won't say it is dead sounding, it has come a long ways in 6 months but just does not have the depth of sound like the Mahogany. Will I get that depth and ring when it opens up or what should I expect? Thank you for this forum, I have been learning a lot!

jseth · #2 08-14-2020, 07:30 PM

I've never noticed the woods on the back and the sides of a guitar "opening up"... it's the top wood that shifts, over time... in that regard, your Martin should sound better the more you play it; that's a happy circumstance, right?

Although I have always thought that guitars "opening up" with time and play was something that EVERYONE who played the acoustic guitar knew about, apparently it's a topic for much debate on this Forum...

My experience with playing acoustic guitars over the past 6 decades is that, indeed, guitars do "open up" - I use quotation marks because I'm not sure I'd use that nomenclature to describe the phenomenon.

I've noticed that factory-built guitars don't always sound significantly better over time, but many do. I had a Martin D-35 (a '72) and I played the dickens out of that guitar for 5 or 6 years, and it never did sound any better... it was okay, but only okay.

On the other hand, I owned and played my Mark Angus F-40 (German Black Forest spruce over maple) for 41 years... it sounded fantastic when it came off the bench into my hands, and sounded great the whole while I owned it... but it didn't really change much over time, just kept sounding really good to me.

My suspicion is that a lightly built hand made guitar may just come out of the workshop sounding every bit as good as it can...more recently, I owned a Goodall Grand Concert (about the size of your OOO) with a redwood top and mahogany back and sides. It went through a lot of changes in tone and volume in the first 3-6 months of it's life (I was the first person to put strings on it!), but then settled in where it was and stayed there. Fortunately, it was a terrific sounding guitar!

I've heard it said that cedar and redwood don't "open up" like spruces do, that they sound pretty much the same when they're new or 10 years old... I can attest to that with that Goodall of mine.

I wouldn't worry about it. Play that thing, A LOT, and enjoy it... and let it age under your hands and fingers... if you don't like the way it sounds, then find one that you DO love the way it sounds...

J Patrick · #3 08-14-2020, 07:31 PM

It’s hard to.tell if you’re hoping for something to change that is based on your guitar opening up or is more related to what the basic tone of Rosewood vs Mahogany is...these are my observations in general...

...Mahogany often has a naturally more open and ringing tone....it’s like the guitar just spits out the notes ....Rosewood often offers a more compressed sound...like the notes are blooming as you listen to them...usually referred to as overtones....it’s more sophisticated sounding to me and has a smoother sound texture..these are generalizations

.....if you’re wanting the Rosewood guitar...the 000-28 I assume...to become more alive and exhibit the qualities you like in your Mahogany guitar.....my guess is that it’s not gonna happen....it’s just a guess...and I could be way off on what you’re hoping for...but 6 months in should be enough time for a guitar to acquire its basic sound...

....it could be you’re just not a Rosewood guitar lover...I’m not unless it’s some insanely awesome sounding guitar...there have been a few over the years that got my attention but alas they were not to be mine...I do keep buying Rosewood guitars but they always get passed on whereas the Mahogany guitars stick around...

.....in other words....MAHOGANY ROCKS!!!!!....

Traikat · #4 08-14-2020, 07:38 PM

JPatrick, thats what I am afraid of that maybe after spending hard earned cash on what was suppose to be my dream guitar, is not what I had hoped for. I will give it more time...I'm afraid I maybe a a mahogany person too.

J Patrick · #5 08-14-2020, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traikat

JPatrick, thats what I am afraid of that maybe after spending hard earned cash on what was suppose to be my dream guitar, is not what I had hoped for. I will give it more time...I'm afraid I maybe a a mahogany person too.

....nothing to be afraid of....Martin 000-18’s are awesome guitars!!!...

jpd · #6 08-14-2020, 07:57 PM

I'm a mahogany guy. I wanted to add a rosewood to my collection, so I chose a 00-28. The depth and resonance blows me away. That's the best sound description I can give...besides it being awesome! More overtones, more fullness...and string choice does change it up.

Traikat · #7 08-14-2020, 08:19 PM

jpd from where I set, I'm just not hearing that depth. I guess my question was will I hear it in time?

Lillis · #8 08-14-2020, 08:31 PM

I would certainly try all the different string alloy’s before getting discouraged.

Simon Fay · #9 08-14-2020, 08:36 PM

Rosewood tends to provide a richer, more complex tone than Mahogany. When a guitar opens up, the sound becomes a bit more lively and responsive and overall, smoother and more effortless. As another poster mentioned, it really is the top that is opening up - the back/sides are more or less, along for the ride.

My advice is to never buy a guitar on how you hope it will sound eventually. A guitar becomes a bit more than it already is -- as it opens up BUT you aren't going to go from dead to alive just by playing it. IF you don't like how it sounds now then get rid of it as it will only get marginally better.

mercy · #10 08-14-2020, 08:51 PM

There are Martin duds, or maybe you just dont get RW. I dont get mahogany so ... I would try another of the same model and see what happens. If it sounds the same then you know what to do.

Traikat · #11 08-14-2020, 09:00 PM

I will give it some more time, or give me more time to adjust to a different tone wood. I don't think it is a dud or otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. Lord only knows I played so many guitars the store owners were calling me by name everytime I walked in. lol

justonwo · #12 08-14-2020, 10:04 PM

Generally a rosewood guitar will have a bit of extra ringing (overtone and sustain) compared to a mahogany guitar. They almost have a reverb quality to them. That's not to say ALL rosewood guitars sound that way - that's just generally the trend. Of course, it's the build ultimately that determines the sound much more than the tonewood. If the guitar sounds dead, that should be attributed to the overall build and not any one attribute.

That being said, new guitars do open up over time, but it's largely changes in the top because it's the top that's under stress. I find that it's usually the first few months where the majority of the change takes place (depending on, of course, how much you play). If the guitar doesn't float your boat after 6 months of break-in, it's probably never going to float your boat. The changes you will experience from here on out will be pretty subtle.

Wellington · #13 08-14-2020, 10:33 PM

For what it's worth, I have a rosewood dread that I love, after a couple years though it almost suddenly, or rather suddenly I realized the tone had sort of matured and gotten fuller sounding, which was great. I love it, planning on eventually adding a mahogany b/s dread, hopefully I'm not disappointed with the hog tone in a dread being so used to my rosewood.

Dru Edwards · #14 08-15-2020, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillis

I would certainly try all the different string alloy’s before getting discouraged.

+1. Great recommendation.

Traikat (OP) - Have you tried different alloys? i.e. 80/20 vs PBs?

MickZ · #15 08-15-2020, 10:28 AM

I have found that the Martin Standard Series has a lot of variability among the same models, with the exception of the 40s and the Modern Deluxes. Being new to rosewood, I suspect that you might have bought a 000 28 that was good but not great. A great RW Martin really rings and provides nice overtones. Maybe go back to the shop, bring your 000 along and A/B it against another Martin (and other brands') RW guitars. It could turn out that you prefer mahogany, but it's hard to beat a RW OM as an all-arounder.