Is lots of practice enough to play like this or is it ultimately down to talent?

[gcdcpakmbs]

https://www.amazon.com/Talent-Code-U...7438146&sr=8-2

[Dwight]

Their might be a dozen or so players here that have or will master the guitar. Very few people will put in the work or see results that motivate them to move forward.

Larry Pattis and Eric Skye are a couple of the top players on the forum. Maybe someone else can chime in with some more of our great players?

[BoneDigger]

Originally Posted by Dwight

Their might be a dozen or so players here that have or will master the guitar. Very few people will put in the work or see results that motivate them to move forward.

Larry Pattis and Eric Skye are a couple of the top players on the forum. Maybe someone else can chime in with some more of our great players?

This is confusing to me. What does "move forward" mean in respect to guitar? Do you mean "get better"? If someone can only make an Em and D chord, but through practice they have now mastered the C and G chords, is that not progressing? How about someone who always does campfire cowboy chords but finally mastered the Barre chords? Or that person who finally decided to learn the lead of a favorite song?

There is no "end" to guitar playing. Nor is there a magical level that makes you the "master" of the guitar. From what I have heard and read, there are many awesome musicians who are still learning new tricks throughout their careers. There are also fabulous musicians who readily admit they are not the best they have ever seen.

I think the guitar is a journey and there really is no end.

[Jwills57]

Do a youtube search of "Yenne Lee, Autumn Leaves." This guy was excellent. For me personally, I didn't like the second improve before the last melody line came in, but that's just me. The rest I thought was beautiful. But Yenne Lee's arrangement makes this guy's arrangement look like elementary school stuff. There's always a bigger, faster, stronger bear. "Comparison is the thief of joy."

[phcorrigan]

In his book "Mastery," George Leonard talks about the value of natural talent and how it can help but also how it can get in the way. So I guess my answer is that maybe natural talent helps, but not always. The question is, how much time, effort and focus are you willing to expend to be able to play like that?

https://www.amazon.com/Mastery-Keys-...7446820&sr=1-2

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by mc1

The tuner angle plus the capo

Don't forget that you need the right strings to go with the proper tuner angle and the correct capo, otherwise it will all sound like crap!

[Samogitian]

Originally Posted by Jwills57

Do a youtube search of "Yenne Lee, Autumn Leaves." This guy was excellent. For me personally, I didn't like the second improve before the last melody line came in, but that's just me. The rest I thought was beautiful. But Yenne Lee's arrangement makes this guy's arrangement look like elementary school stuff. There's always a bigger, faster, stronger bear. "Comparison is the thief of joy."

I guess it's just a matter of taste, because I still like Dave's version best and I've listened to other versions, including Sungha Jung. Dave's version is by far more complex than the one you suggested and sounds like actual jazz, Autumn Leaves is a jazz standard after all. Also I really hate classical guitars

[EZYPIKINS]

Originally Posted by Samogitian

Yes and Yes_

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Jwills57

Do a youtube search of "Yenne Lee, Autumn Leaves." This guy was excellent. For me personally, I didn't like the second improve before the last melody line came in, but that's just me. The rest I thought was beautiful. But Yenne Lee's arrangement makes this guy's arrangement look like elementary school stuff. There's always a bigger, faster, stronger bear. "Comparison is the thief of joy."

I really liked Yenne's version. Again, it was a bit of "Variations on Autumn Leaves", but it was great.

Originally Posted by Samogitian

I guess it's just a matter of taste, because I still like Dave's version best and I've listened to other versions, including Sungha Jung. Dave's version is by far more complex than the one you suggested and sounds like actual jazz, Autumn Leaves is a jazz standard after all. Also I really hate classical guitars

For me, Yenne had more mastery of her instrument. Better dynamics and tempo. Such attention to tone. Of course, I love the classical guitar.

And while both of these players are great, and so fun to listen to, there is a higher level, the true masters, like Joe Pass.

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by Samogitian

I knew I should have bought the Maton SRS808C with the cutaway instead of my SRS808 non cutaway! No wonder I don’t get it!

I think there are other elements involved that so far we have missed...so first you need to HEAR and then have talent and the practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practic, practi, pract, prac....and may get it if you keep at it way past what most people would consider ‘normal’.


I personally ‘heard’ blues acoustic to wild electric blues like Brownie and Freddie at gigs and festivals when young and then set out to discover what they were all doing. And I am still practicing...And sure glad I didn’t hear Wes Montgomery playing a fully sublime Round Midnight until I was way older, because I may have just exploded!

So I imagine the guy in the video above has practiced SO much that he has aches in every part of his fingers, hands, shoulders etc, etc....but he has ‘heard’ something he is following.

(I went to a guitar teacher to learn blues fingerpicking, my love, as a ‘very mature age’ student, but he said he had no idea about that but could teach me jazz chords and lines. Well OK. And for every weekly lesson, I had about 4 hours per night practice to do! Phew! And while it was not what I really wanted to play, I picked up a lot of things but mainly found out how much work is needed!)



BluesKing777.

[Conomor]

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

I sometimes wonder if 'talent' doesn't simply boil down to 'whatever it takes to motivate lots of practice'.

Keep in mind that there's a difference between 'play' and 'practice'.

Indeed. We often remark on the ease with which children learn to play musical instruments. But children often have the benefit of strong, exterior motivators in the form of teachers and parents. Adult learners, playing for pleasure and relaxation, may not feel so pressured to practice with the same level of structure and discipline.

I also dislike this notion of 'talent' as some sort of divine gift. It's all a bit magical and fatalistic. I suppose that some people may be born with a particular neural or mental configuration that's favorable for certain activities (music, mathematics etc). Others may simply possess a clearer understanding of what it takes to learn and improve at a skill. They make more efficient use of their practice time, while the rest of us reward ourselves by focusing on the comfortable and familiar.

[charles Tauber]

There are two basic approaches to acquiring a skill or ability. One way is to simply repeat the activity over and over and over again and, in the process of doing so become aware, consciously or unconsciously, of what it takes to do it better. Without that conscious or unconscious "aha" that comes with the repetition, one is simply doing repetition: many repeat the same thing over and over again and never get appreciably better at it, never achieve that "aha".

The other way is to be explicitly taught how to get better at something and then apply that knowledge through the necessary repetition of the activity to achieve it.

The approaches are not mutually exclusive.

As Alan, and others, have pointed out, "practice" is usually a different activity than "playing". One element of "practice" is the paying attention to what one is doing for the purpose of improving: it is a study in awareness, rather than mindless repetition. "Playing" is a form of expression of oneself, a very different activity.

[3notes]

Originally Posted by Samogitian

This guy could play anywhere in the world. And get paid for it.

Can you get there.?? Is your heart so warm about it that you're willing to put in the work.?? You might get there but you probably won't sound like that guy. You'll sound like you. And I'm not so sure practice alone gets you there. Time in the classroom, time reading books, time in front of an audience, time recording..... I'm still not sure if you get there. Total devotion. And so much more.

That said, there are people who get there. And a lot of them take a lot of short cuts. I can't explain.....

[TBman]

This all reminds me of a time when I was about 32 and over the course of a long winter I gained about 35 pounds. I was tipping the scales at 230. I knew I needed to do something about it. I was in a book store (remember those?) and saw a book by Jim Fixx called the Complete Book of Running. I bought it and read it cover to cover. I brought my fat body out to the park and "ran" a mile, point to point in 16 minutes. 16 minutes. You could walk faster than I could run.

So I made up a plan and followed it. Once I got to a better place physically I bought another book with training plans in it to run a 10k at different paces. I picked the 40 minute 10k which required me to run 6:30 per mile for 6.2 miles. At the time I could barely run one mile in 8 minutes. I felt that even trying would get me in a better place.


By following the book (not exactly though), eating better and resting to avoid overuse injuries I got my point to point mile to 5:25 (with only limited speed training) and I ran a 10k in 40:18 (and not a flat course either). My basal pulse rate was 38 and my weight had dropped to 175.

I had Zero natural talent. It was all training. Playing guitar is the same thing. As long as you can tap your foot in time, you can learn to play a decent guitar.

You just can't quit on yourself.

[wguitar]

IMHO this is not an either/or thing but rather a nuanced combination of natural ability, physical ability, mental acuity, how well one is able to synthesize textbook(mental) learning (for example, music theory) with physical application, our sense of motivation, role models, and other elements of what make each individual who he/she is. We are all "wired" differently and learn and apply our learning (mental and physical) in our own manner. The funny thing about practicing anything is that if you practice the "wrong" things you'll actually get farther from the goal. Practice (repetitions) will surely make you better at whatever it is your practicing. Whether talent is innate or learned continues to be a subject of scientific debate. Be the best that YOU can be is how I approach this. Interesting thread! Cheers!