Martin SC 13 and Fishman MX pickup

[chasapple]

I have a 3 month old Martin 000 Jr which also has this same sonitone/sonicore system. I have also noticed the same issues with the mids/trebles.

Even when using my Aura Spectrum DI with various Martin IRs, i cannot yet get a tone as good as I had in previous guitars with a fishman matrix/mic blender system.

I will keep fiddling with it.

Interesting how Mr. Fishman says that this pickup does affect the tone in a negative way. I've tried taking the pickup out, and using different saddles. Personally my ears cannot hear an acoustic tone difference when the pickup is in place versus when it is not.

However, I REALLY like how this Sonitone system has the battery/input jack box on the side of the lower bout away from the end pin area, so it doesn't mess with your guitar strap button. (I have always struggled with getting a strap secure on the pickup endpin when plugged in. It keeps unscrewing loose, etc).

I inquired with Sweetwater about upgrading to the new matrix Mic blend system, but they insist that I would not be able to use the current battery box/input jack, and they would need to do a normal end pin installation instead with the battery installation inside the body.

-Charles

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by chasapple

Even when using my Aura Spectrum DI with various Martin IRs, i cannot yet get a tone as good as I had in previous guitars with a fishman matrix/mic blender system.
-Charles

You need a custom IR, like what ToneDexter or my script can do. A "canned" IR has to be optimized for generality like a Zoom A1 Four or TC Bodyrez to be of use in this situation. The Aura library is about going from a very specific (Fishman) source to perfection and does not work very well off target.

Getting back to SpruceTop's post, a Matrix is a much more expensive pickup, "lower yield" in a factory, and likely more expensive to support with the end user (it is fragile). But even if the difference was $40 to Martin, it needs to be margined several times and likely could add $160 to the MAP price which is not trivial. I doubt the electric guitar crossover (for which the Fender-ish neck mount screams) user would appreciate the difference between the Sonitone and Matrix.

When you consider the cost to manufacture a guitar, you also have to pay for the design, marketing, sales, support, warranty work, distribution, retailer etc. What might seem small in the initial bill of materials quickly becomes huge when you margin it for all the other costs to be in business.

[Audie]

I called Fishman this past Friday and spoke with a real nice fella. He told me the flat setting for thie snotone is when the dial is turned all the way up toward the neck. Then, you are hearing the natural sound of the guitar. I tried this and more sweetness prevailed.

[ohiopicker]

I too just purchased a 000 size Martin with the MX system and am extremely frustrated. The system doesn’t sound as good as the 25 year old Ovation with the FET-3 preamp I sold to get this!

I am familiar with the tone control on the MX, but I am having a hard time getting it to sound like a 000 at a reasonable volume. I use a Roland-AC-33 and a Boss Acoustic Singer Live. The MX with the AC-33 is almost unusable. With the Boss amp, using the Body Res setting #2 it is Somewhat usable. On the AC-33 all tone controls are at full ‘off’ to avoid a strident, metallic sound.

BTW, what is an IR?

[ohiopicker]

Originally Posted by ohiopicker

I too just purchased a 000 size Martin with the MX system and am extremely frustrated. The system doesn’t sound as good as the 25 year old Ovation with the FET-3 preamp I sold to get this!

I am familiar with the tone control on the MX, but I am having a hard time getting it to sound like a 000 at a reasonable volume. I use a Roland-AC-33 and a Boss Acoustic Singer Live. The MX with the AC-33 is almost unusable. With the Boss amp, using the Body Res setting #2 it is Somewhat usable. On the AC-33 all tone controls are at full ‘off’ to avoid a strident, metallic sound.

BTW, what is an IR?

Follow up to my previous post. I bought a Fishman Aura Orchestra pedal and the problem is solved. However, I described my problem to Fishman and described the equipment I was using. When I asked about what model guitars and amps appear on the early version of the Aura pedal, they declined to answer. I was already aware of how the tone control on the MX functioned, but I don’t think that is what causes the MX system to sound sub-par. They did not repond to my opinion of the pickup. In any event, all is well that ends well.

[JackB1]

On a side note, hoe do you like your Boss Acoustic Singer. Thinking of getting one myself.

Originally Posted by ohiopicker

I use a Roland-AC-33 and a Boss Acoustic Singer Live. The MX with the AC-33 is almost unusable. With the Boss amp, using the Body Res setting #2 it is Somewhat usable. On the AC-33 all tone controls are at full ‘off’ to avoid a strident, metallic sound.

BTW, what is an IR?

[lowrider]

Originally Posted by Audie

Do you think it would be an easy swap out if I wanted to change and perhaps keep the tuner?

I did exactly that for a very nice improvement both plugged in and acoustically. I did it on my Martin X. It was very easy. I just cut the wires and soldered them together. If you took out the pre-amp, you could de-solder the wires and solder on the new wires to the UST. It would be neater but my way worked just fine.

It’s any easy fix and it worked out great for me.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by chasapple

I have a 3 month old Martin 000 Jr which also has this same sonitone/sonicore system. I have also noticed the same issues with the mids/trebles.

Even when using my Aura Spectrum DI with various Martin IRs, i cannot yet get a tone as good as I had in previous guitars with a fishman matrix/mic blender system.

I will keep fiddling with it.

Interesting how Mr. Fishman says that this pickup does affect the tone in a negative way. I've tried taking the pickup out, and using different saddles. Personally my ears cannot hear an acoustic tone difference when the pickup is in place versus when it is not.

However, I REALLY like how this Sonitone system has the battery/input jack box on the side of the lower bout away from the end pin area, so it doesn't mess with your guitar strap button. (I have always struggled with getting a strap secure on the pickup endpin when plugged in. It keeps unscrewing loose, etc).

I inquired with Sweetwater about upgrading to the new matrix Mic blend system, but they insist that I would not be able to use the current battery box/input jack, and they would need to do a normal end pin installation instead with the battery installation inside the body.

-Charles

I don’t think that’s true. The battery box and jack can be reused if you have the know-how.

[lowrider]

You absolutely can reuse the battery box an output jack. Here's a pic of my Road Series, that I put a JJB into.




I mounted the JJB jack right into the now empty battery box. The battery clip snaps out and you could either snap your new clip right in or cut the wires and solder them together. Either way it's an easy switch and the battery box makes it easy since you can do it all outside of the guitar.

[JackB1]

Anyone replace the pickup on their SC13e and was it easy to do?

[JackB1]

Did you ever get the answer to this question?

Originally Posted by Audie

Do you think it would be an easy swap out if I wanted to change and perhaps keep the tuner?

[JackB1]

I tried this and it didn’t sound good with the tone setting all the way flat. Also when you roll the tone setting all the way the other way, it’s a mid scoop with a trouble and bass boost. The problem with that is it makes the trouble very high and crackly. I get the best sound with the tone control arm around the middle.

Originally Posted by Audie

I called Fishman this past Friday and spoke with a real nice fella. He told me the flat setting for thie snotone is when the dial is turned all the way up toward the neck. Then, you are hearing the natural sound of the guitar. I tried this and more sweetness prevailed.

[geewhiz]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I doubt the electric guitar crossover (for which the Fender-ish neck mount screams) user would appreciate the difference between the Sonitone and Matrix.

That’s a really unfair comment, and a bit snooty sounding if I may say so.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by geewhiz

That’s a really unfair comment, and a bit snooty sounding if I may say so.

Why is this unfair? An electric guitar crossover player - meaning someone who does not play acoustic until now - is going to be able to distinguish between similar acoustic pickups???

I find that hard to believe when we see every week (or sometimes day) actual acoustic guitarists post that they cannot tell the difference between certain pickups.

Maybe you might be taking his post too personally.

[geewhiz]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

Why is this unfair? An electric guitar crossover player - meaning someone who does not play acoustic until now - is going to be able to distinguish between similar acoustic pickups???

I find that hard to believe when we see every week (or sometimes day) actual acoustic guitarists post that they cannot tell the difference between certain pickups.

Maybe you might be taking his post too personally.

Perhaps so, and maybe my post was sent a bit in haste (when I was supposed to be working ).