Acoustic guitar with a low action?

[Osage]

Originally Posted by Kenny202

What is the take on Crafter guitars? They seem quite well built and see a lot of them here, not exactly cheap either. I have seen some nice Taylor's but never played one. Is it possible to get a decent action on those?

It's possible to get decent action on practically any guitar ever built. Definitely possible on practically any guitar, excluding obviously defective ones, from a major manufacturer like Taylor.

[Bigun]

I get lower action with heavier strings. Sounds better, doesn’t buzz as much as much,makes me play better and and more efficiently. My arthritis even seems more manageable. Ymmv😄good luck!

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Bigun

I get lower action with heavier strings. Sounds better, doesn’t buzz as much, makes me play better and and more efficiently...

- which makes me wonder why this type of setup is all but forgotten...

[vindibona1]

Kenny...

Coming from the world of electrics I can tell you that acoustics have to be approached a bit differently. You can't get a decent sound with 3/64th" (1.191mm) action as you might with a Strat. Most acoustics that are considered "low action" are somewhere near 2mm (5/64 lower strings-4/64 upper strings). Once the action gets too low the guitar will lose its magic. That means to get comfortable action, getting optimal play and sound we have to be super critical, with nut slots and neck relief as well as string height. And obviously frets have to be level. And unlike many electrics where you can individually dial in string height and intonation with the turn of a screw-driver, getting all the elements perfect requires somewhat more skill.

If someone hadn't already suggested it, unless you know how to do setups yourself, it is highly recommended that you spend the cash to get your acoustic(s) professionally set up by a skilled technician. It will be the best $100 you could spend on your acoustic.

[rmp]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Kenny...

Coming from the world of electrics I can tell you that acoustics have to be approached a bit differently. You can't get a decent sound with 3/64th" (1.191mm) action as you might with a Strat. Most acoustics that are considered "low action" are somewhere near 2mm (5/64 lower strings-4/64 upper strings). Once the action gets too low the guitar will lose its magic. That means to get comfortable action, getting optimal play and sound we have to be super critical, with nut slots and neck relief as well as string height. And obviously frets have to be level. And unlike many electrics where you can individually dial in string height and intonation with the turn of a screw-driver, getting all the elements perfect requires somewhat more skill.

and how...

I've a friend with a beauty of a J185. he has that action so low and strung with 10 gauge strings. I can't get a clean note out of it, and I
have a light touch. But,, it's his guitar, so have at it dude..

He'll soon sell it (cuz that's what he does) and the next owner will have most likely need to replace the saddle.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by rpguitar

You absolutely can get a low action on an acoustic guitar, but not entirely like an electric. The string has to vibrate more freely on an acoustic guitar; there is no two ways about it. Electric guitar strings can tolerate more fret slap and buzz because the pickup is amplifying the sound, and some of those potentially disruptive effects get covered up by the amplification.

The standard for acoustic steel string guitar low action on the E (sixth) string is 3/32" above the 12 fret, which translates to 2.38 mm. An aggressive low action, still doable with really even frets, is 5/64" or 1.98 mm. That's the "I wouldn't make it any lower" setting. This setting will also be too low for most people, and if you sell the guitar, will likely be problematic for prospective buyers.

Obviously some will disagree, but this is my experience and it's backed up by most internet anecdotes I've read. Nut slots are also crucial and occasionally overlooked by the amateur.

Here's a great article on acoustic guitar action:
http://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/actions.htm

Your best bet, though, is to embrace the acoustic guitar for what it is and learn to play with an action that's appropriate for the instrument.

I have four guitars. Two of them are set at .187mm or a shade less than
5/64ths which is indeed a hair and I mean a thin hair lower than recommended.
The other two are right at 5/64's.
They all play easily with no issues and I tweaked the setups myself after my guitar tech's original set up. The nuts are all optimum so it was some saddle work and a wee bit of truss rod that got me "in the zone."
I would agree that any lower may be possible, but not advisable. That's as low as Im going anyway.

P.S. To my friend vindibona1...a set up from an accomplished tech here in rural America is $50.
But hey, we don't have the "miracle mile" either.

[turbotom1052]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Here's a little secret all the '50s bop/rockabilly players knew:

If you want to get the action really low - in the range of 1.5-2.0mm (I wouldn't go any lower on a flattop acoustic) - think in terms of heavier strings than what you're used to. A set of 12's or 13's will not only have a smaller envelope of vibration (the amount of "swing" when plucked) but the added mass will impart more energy to the top (with the added benefits of more volume/tone), both of which will allow you to set the bridge saddle lower than with lighter-gauge strings (speaking from personal experience here - until very recently most of my electrics were set up with 12's, my flattop acoustics and electric jazzboxes with 13's, and my acoustic archtops with 14's); FYI those jazz guys were ripping off blazing solos with 13- and 14-gauge sets, a 12-gauge set (such as would have been fitted as OEM to period solid and thin-body instruments) was considered "light," and other than the late Tal Farlow none of them possessed particularly large hands. FWIW I'd find myself a first-rate tech and get a good pro setup job - you'd be surprised at just how easy a well-made guitar can play, and if seasonal humidity is a constant problem you might think about interchangeable "summer" and "winter" saddles (FYI many orchestral string players do this)...

Of course, you could always buy a carbon-fiber Rainsong/Emerald/CA/etc. - totally impervious to temperature/humidity (within reason), and you can never have too many guitars...

Due to the dimensional stability of a carbon fiber guitar it is my feeling that they can be set up with actions lower than the best solid wood guitars. The limiting factors with a low setup on the wood guitar is to anticipate the climatic conditions that will have the tops sinking. If your setup does not need to allow for the dimensional instability of wood I feel tolerances can be a bit closer to the frets. I will be better able to verify this statement after I've spent a Vermont winter with my new to me carbon fiber Emerald. Ive got low E down to 4\64ths and High e down to 3\64ths. Lets see what happens when the RH in my house drops down below 35. Im betting I will be fine. If it turns out that I experience buzzing Ill just swap out the low saddle for the original one.

[TokyoNeko]

Originally Posted by Kenny202

What is the take on Crafter guitars? They seem quite well built and see a lot of them here, not exactly cheap either. I have seen some nice Taylor's but never played one. Is it possible to get a decent action on those?

I'm a Crafter owner. They seem to be more prevalent in Asia and Europe. (I ordered mine directly from Korea.) In my view, Crafter has completely dropped the ball in marketing their product in North America. The offerings that are supposedly available here are much smaller than the lineup elsewhere, and their website doesn't seem to have been updated it years. Having said that, I'm very happy with my own guitar. It's built like a tank, but has a very lively sound.

[Brent Hahn]

For great action, it's as much or more about the luthier than the guitar. Ask around and find the best person in town. And be prepared to pay more than you might think and be thoroughly interrogated.

[musicwu]

Originally Posted by Kenny202

Just wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction. Never been much of an acoustic player as I like the low action of an electric. Now I have come to understand that acoustic guitars are meant to have a higher action to get the sound quality. I am after a compromise here. Most playing will be at home and amplified if gigging.

When I say low action I mean between 1 - 2 mm off the 12th fret. Am I right in assuming Taylors, Guilds, Martins etc will generally have a higher action with little chance of getting down to what I require?

The only thing I have had come close to what I wanted was an early Japanese Takamine. I had a Japanese made APX also which was good. The neck was so precise the action was silky smooth, fast and low and sounded great. Later Takamines I have played have not been the same. As you can tell I am no purist. Can anyone suggest a brand of guitar, decent but not ridiculously expensive that may be made well enough (neck straight) that will allow me to get the action I want?

Low action has less to do with brands than a good setup. Make sure the neck is straight and more saddle left while the action is not bad from the beginning. Many guitars can be setup to your specs. However, some guitars may need a fret leveling to make sure there is no fret buzz with the low action and I cannot say which brand has better fret work right from the factory. Normally, more expensive guitars are better in this respect.

[OneThing]

I highly recommend the Fender Acoustasonic Tele. Excuse me now as I run and duck for cover!!!

[s2y]

I generally keep my guitars at 0.07 inches. My Taylor 12 fret did this with almost zero effort.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by s2y

I generally keep my guitars at 0.07 inches. My Taylor 12 fret did this with almost zero effort.

That's about as low as is practical.
Probably "plays like butter."

[s2y]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

That's about as low as is practical.

Probably "plays like butter." [/QUOTE]

Agreed on the practicality aspect. It requires a certain degree of "clean" technique. Sloppy picking or finger style can get buzzy. I also have to pay more attention to the relief and humidity.

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Probably "plays like butter."

LOL, I'm set in my ways. I have been using the phrase "it plays itself" since before the internet.

[mr. beaumont]

OP, consider an archtop. Make sure things are where you want them at the nut, then dial the action down as low as you want, try it out, likely hate it, then crank it back up until it sounds good again.

You can go low on a flat top too, but it's not as easily reversible.

Just a thought.