The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:37 PM
zeeway zeeway is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Low Country, South Carolina, USA
Posts: 988
Default Replaced K&K with HFN

So after much head scratching, research, etc., I took the plunge. My K&K was better through a Red-eye preamp, but still seemed boomy and a bit muddy.

But for the good of mankind and guitar-kind, before removing the K&K entirely, I cut the lead to the middle disc and tried it...and it did sound better. I probably could have lived with that, but I still decided to press on.

I removed the K&K discs from my carbon-fiber guitar with a razor blade scraper, the kind you use to take paint off of windows. That took about ten minutes to get all the little bits off. I then lightly sanded the area with 300 grit sandpaper - probably could have skipped this step, but I am a bit OCD when doing these guitar things.

Used putty under the feet and located as close as I could get it directly under the saddle. Got the end pin all sorted, and then plugged it in through the Red-Eye preamp.

The sound is very good, IMHO. I did eq a bit of bass out, and liked it even better.

The specific pickup I used is the HFN Schatten passive for steel string guitars.
__________________
Angie
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-17-2019, 03:17 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 4,598
Default

I am happy with the HFN's in my three RainSongs. I've previously installed K&K's in two RainSongs, a CO-DR1100N2 and a CH-WS1100N2. I thought both sounded pretty good too but I definitely like the HFN better. My initial interest in the HFN was finding a way around cyanoacrylate glue and the icing on the cake was the improved tone. I would have been hesitant to risk a razor blade near CF since unlike wood the strength is all in the inner/outer surface layers. My HFN's are all tape installed.
__________________
jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator
.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs
IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
My duo's website and my email... [email protected]

Jon Fields
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-17-2019, 04:47 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,873
Default

Schatten HFN passive quickly became my favorite pickup. I'm after installing it in 4 different guitars so far and they all sound great plugged in.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-17-2019, 05:51 PM
zeeway zeeway is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Low Country, South Carolina, USA
Posts: 988
Default

While I have been playing guitar a long time, my amplified playing only started about two years ago. During that time, I have been through three amps and three pickups, but I do believe I am now settled on HFN >Red Eye preamp>Fishman Artist for the foreseeable future.

I guess I just need to be more careful about getting sucked into the vortex of recommendations coming from AGF...
__________________
Angie
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-17-2019, 06:26 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeway View Post
While I have been playing guitar a long time, my amplified playing only started about two years ago. During that time, I have been through three amps and three pickups, but I do believe I am now settled on HFN >Red Eye preamp>Fishman Artist for the foreseeable future.

I guess I just need to be more careful about getting sucked into the vortex of recommendations coming from AGF...
Yes the AGF vortex can be quite strong for sure. My main setup is very similar to yours. HFN->Fishman Loudbox Artist. I don't use a preamp but when I do I put Tonedexter in between.

I was never quite happy with my amplified tone in the past. I sorta discovered the HFN and Tonedexter at the same. Both of those changed amplified tone for me.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-17-2019, 08:42 PM
zeeway zeeway is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Low Country, South Carolina, USA
Posts: 988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post

I was never quite happy with my amplified tone in the past. I sorta discovered the HFN and Tonedexter at the same. Both of those changed amplified tone for me.
That Tonedexter also has a strong pull on me toward the vortex, but I will resist (I hope).
__________________
Angie
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-17-2019, 11:22 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeway View Post
That Tonedexter also has a strong pull on me toward the vortex, but I will resist (I hope).
I think you can do without Tonedexter with the HFN, especially with the Fishman amp. Tonedexter doesn't really make it sound better, just different IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-17-2019, 11:58 PM
Steve Hamill Steve Hamill is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 197
Default HFN for DTar

I recently acquired after a 5 year plus search a Goodall Royal Hawaiian. It had DTar under saddle installed that had gone south due to leaking batteries onto the small pc board under the battery holder. Decided to go with the Schatten after the usual AGF research and a little Youtube watching. It took longer to remove all the old wire and components than to install the HFN. Piece of cake!
I plug into a Kemper with some really nice rigs loaded for acoustic. One particular free profile is of a Neve 1037. I planned on grabbing a Redeye if the signal wasn’t hot enough for the Kemper and indeed it would help. Remembered I had a T1M buffer in my old pedal pile. It gives a nice clean low impedance boost and is just the ticket. So far really love the HFN and its so light and simple compared to its predecessor.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-18-2019, 11:49 AM
Oregon Donor Oregon Donor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 53
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
Yes the AGF vortex can be quite strong for sure. My main setup is very similar to yours. HFN->Fishman Loudbox Artist. I don't use a preamp but when I do I put Tonedexter in between.

I was never quite happy with my amplified tone in the past. I sorta discovered the HFN and Tonedexter at the same. Both of those changed amplified tone for me.
When you run your guitar right into the Loudbox how much EQing do you have to do on the Loudbox? My setup is K&K PM -> BBE Acoustimax -> LB Artist or wherever, and I’m finding that if I go out this way into a venue PA my acoustic tone is plastic-y / boxy no matter how much I try to EQ it. Really thinking about doing an HFN install to replace the PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-18-2019, 12:52 PM
zeeway zeeway is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Low Country, South Carolina, USA
Posts: 988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Donor View Post
When you run your guitar right into the Loudbox how much EQing do you have to do on the Loudbox? My setup is K&K PM -> BBE Acoustimax -> LB Artist or wherever, and I’m finding that if I go out this way into a venue PA my acoustic tone is plastic-y / boxy no matter how much I try to EQ it. Really thinking about doing an HFN install to replace the PM.
Not sure who you are asking...but on my setup, I only EQ the Low range of my Fishman Artist to 9 o'clock. Mid and High are set to 12 o'clock. But I am guessing this is also dependent on the specific guitar.
__________________
Angie
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-18-2019, 01:28 PM
guitarman68 guitarman68 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Posts: 768
Default

If it sounds great on your Loudbox, it should sound great in the venue PA.
Mm, maybe try the pre/post - button on the D.I.output of your BBE.
__________________
Blazer & Henkes, vintage Martins & Gibsons, Altman, Martin 00016 Streetmaster
mandolin family, Weissenborn, dobro, lap steel, pedal steel, 5-string banjo
live gear: Dazzo, Schatten, K&K, Mimesis Kudos, Schoeps CMC6MK4, DPA4061, Neumann KM85, Grace Felix 2, SunnAudio, ToneDexter, RedEye

https://www.youtube.com/@roberthasleder1526
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-18-2019, 05:57 PM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Kirkland, WA USA
Posts: 2,445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeway View Post
That Tonedexter also has a strong pull on me toward the vortex, but I will resist (I hope).
In my experience, both the Schatten HFN and the Dazzo sound more than acceptable straight into a preamp or DI. My duo performed last night at an open mike (I used Dazzo and she used Schatten) and we had the best guitar sound by *FAR* of anyone there using a pickup system. (Doesn't hurt that we were both playing custom guitars.)

We also use ToneDexter, but with these pickups it is because *I* want to hear and present the highest quality, not because it is absolutely mandatory.

I'll mostly agree with GuitarLuva: with this pickup, ToneDexter may not give a big enough improvement for you to see it as an actual improvement. OTOH that might be more of a factor of the specific guitar, your own taste in guitar tones, and how tweaky your hearing is.

Mine is very tweaky.
__________________
-Gordon

1978 Larrivee L-26 cutaway
1988 Larrivee L-28 cutaway
2006 Larrivee L03-R
2009 Larrivee LV03-R
2016 Irvin SJ cutaway
2020 Irvin SJ cutaway (build thread)
K+K, Dazzo, Schatten/ToneDexter


Notable Journey website
Facebook page

Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art. - Leonardo Da Vinci
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-18-2019, 06:21 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon Donor View Post
When you run your guitar right into the Loudbox how much EQing do you have to do on the Loudbox? My setup is K&K PM -> BBE Acoustimax -> LB Artist or wherever, and I’m finding that if I go out this way into a venue PA my acoustic tone is plastic-y / boxy no matter how much I try to EQ it. Really thinking about doing an HFN install to replace the PM.
I don't have to EQ anything with this setup. It sounds best to me with the EQ flat.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=