question about peeling binding

[Daveyo]

My new to me martin d28 has its binding coming undone
I will have my tech fix it but I wonder who this has happened to and how did the repair come out?
Thanks
Dave

[Wade Hampton]

Dave, it’s not at all uncommon and it should be easy to repair. The usual cause is that the wood of the sides, top and back have expanded and contracted due to humidity or temperature changes or both, but there can be other causes - some of the most messed up binding I’ve ever seen was caused by the guitar’s owner slathering DEET insect repellent on his bare forearms and then playing his guitar. DEET can and will cause a nasty chemical reaction with both nitrocellulose lacquer and plastic guitar bindings; in this particular instance the bindings looked half melted and were literally hanging off the guitar.

But absent that sort of chemically driven unpleasantness the expansion and contraction of the vibrating plates of the instrument is the most common culprit.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[mirwa]

Martins had a big problem for about 5yrs with the binding coming loose

Steve

[John Arnold]

Wood expands and contracts very little in the grain direction. There are two causes of Martin loose binding : using a weak glue due to environmental concern in the plant, and plastic shrinkage.

[MC5C]

What plastic and what glue was Martin using when this problem was a problem? With the ornate binding and purfling that grace many Martins I would think this could be a nightmare to fix, if the herringbone fell out for example. What glue would you use for the repair? I've used acetone, and CA glue to fix bindings, depending on the age of the guitar.

[bisco1]

I was reading recently about using "canopy glue" for attaching or reattaching bindings. Apparently, two companies produce the product, Testor's and Pacer. The Pacer product is supposed to be superior. Have any here used it?

[John Arnold]

I use CA to glue loose bindings. Martin still uses the same binding materials, Boltaron (PVC) and celluloid. Not sure what the current glue is, but it doesn't have the strong acetone odor of Duco, which is the old standard for celluloid.
In my experience, there is little danger of the herringbone falling out, provided some care is taken to avoid breaking the binding. The same applies to the pearl borders.

[mirwa]

Please, no one use CA for re-attaching binding, every week i am removing failed binding glue jobs which typically have been glued up previously with CA, it makes the job so much harder than it needs to be.

Any acetone based glue is IMO sufficient.

For warranty work on Martins, I make my own glue using acetone and Martin binding scraps

Steve

[John Arnold]

I have been doing Martin binding reglues with a specific type of CA for many, many years, with a 100% success rate.
FYI, acetone base cement is not a good bonding agent for Boltaron (PVC) binding. It is preferred for celluloid, but the vast majority of the loose Martin binding I encounter is Boltaron.

[mirwa]

100% success rate?, they must sell us Aussies the bad CA glues then .

Steve

[hess]

My j40 binding is starting to separate slightly at the waist in the back. In frets.com binding section, Frank Ford shows a quick repair of “very slightly loose” binding on a d35 that looks exactly like my j40 binding problem. So I was surprised when the local Martin authorized tech said to wait until it gets worse. For those of you that do binding repair, what is your approach? Repair at onset or wait until it’s worse?

[mirwa]

Have it repaired straight away and have it repaired by someone that knows what they are doing.

Too many people just drip some glue into the loose area and then clamp it, bad choice as it will come loose again

Typically I peel the binding back away from the area that has come loose minimum 1 inch either direction, clean the old glue out, activate the binding, glue it on and then refinish

Steve

[John Arnold]

Repair ASAP. The more loose it becomes, the more likely it is to catch on something and break.

[hess]

Thank you Steve and John.

[Truckjohn]

This is a deceptively simple sounding repair. Ou - just stick it back on with some glue... It's really not "simple" if you want a sound repair which comes out looking good.

Definitely take it to a good tech. Remember that you are paying the tech "Not to mess anything else up or do it wrong" just as much as you are to "Fix it up"...

A couple of the problems which can escalate a relatively inexpensive repair into a real mess:


Solvents soften the binding - which can leave fingerprints and clamp marks.
Dirty fingers, rags, etc leave trash which makes an ugly black line in the repair.
Getting the binding lined back up right so there are no lumps, bumps, or ends sticking up.
Glue drips and finish damage
Gluing the tape/clamps to your guitar
Etc.