2500$ budget for mics and A/D interface

[Alter]

I recently moved to a new house that's really quiet, so for the first time I m thinking of setting up a small home studio. I m only interested in recording guitar (no vocals), or guitar duos at most. Computer will be a mac, and the sound I prefer (from acoustic session work I ve done in the past) is a guitar recorded in stereo with two mics. I see most people use a small and a large Diaphragm condenser mics, so I m not looking at ribbons? I have a small mackie board, so I should just get a two channel AD converter, or should I invest at better mic preamps? Looking for a few suggestions on mic combinations also. Not thinking about reverb, comp or mastering for now, since I can do that at another studio after I record at home. I would like to keep the budget around 2000 euros (think about 2500$). Thanks all

[rick-slo]

There are many choices available - too many to really get a handle on. Personally what I use that comes out about right for your price range is a pair of Microtech Gefell M300s and a Mytek Stereo 96 ADC.

[Bobby1note]

A pair of Oktava Mk012's will do a superb job. I have this matched set, but there are other ways of buying the Oktavas (2nd link)

http://www.economik.com/oktava/mk-012-10-stereo-pair/

http://www.economik.com/products/shop-by-brand/oktava/

For your interface, look no further than the Apogee Duet.

http://www.economik.com/apogee/duet/

[Colbyjack]

My mic for you to consider is recommended from a vantage point that is different than most here.


I do voice over work for a living. Years ago I was asked to try a mic and let the rep for the company know what I thought.

It was an Audix SCX25. I tried it and really liked it. It was nice and clear and the most natural sounding mic I recall hearing.

Fast forward 5 or so years. I now do more voice over work than I used to, at a little bit higher level. So I need it to sound good. So I bought a nice $1,500. pre amp and paired it with the Audix SCX 25. It sounded REALLY good.

I've been willing to spend $3,000. on a mic, and have A/B'd about 10 mics with the Audix and played the recordings for "average" people and people in the voice over industry. 95% of the time people choose the Audix.

Since then I've had several people approach me and say "what kind of mic do you use? Your stuff sounds so good." In fact, a few friends who are much "higher" in the voice over business than I have no bought an Audix SCX 25 and use it as there primary voice over mic. In fact, one put aside his $3,500. mic in favor of the Audix.

The Audix SCX 25 is First an acoustic instrument recording and live sound mic. Guitar, Piano etc. They are used a lot for recording acoustic guitar.

Check them out. If you have questions let me know.

[Kurt]

I think Rick's suggestion of the Gefell M300s is a good one, but I'd also recommend you check out the Beyer 930s. Both will be in the same price range. As to an LDC, it's a pretty open field; my recommendation would be to find a used Beesneez James (or possibly Jade), which can be had for about the same amount you're spending on either the Gefells or Beyers. Another possibility is a Mojave MA-200, which would be in the same price range new; I've used it (don't own it, vastly prefer the Beesneez) and it's a much better option, imo, than anything in the AKG 414 series (I find them bright).

You'll obviously find your AKG diehards, though, and the Mojave seems to produce a few haters, although most regard the mic highly, for the price. As to SDCs, Larry (LJguitar) has made some beautiful recordings from the Peluso CEMC6 mics, though I think the Beyers and Gefells are better, personally; the Josephson C42s would be in your price range, too, but are quite noisy and (again, from my perspective) not well suited for studio use on acoustic guitar, in comparison to other options.

From my experience, I'd recommend having both a matched pair of SDCs and a single LDC with which to record; it will open up so many more possibilities for you. Given your budget, you can afford this.

Another given, since you're a Mac user, is the Apogee Duet as an interface, particularly in light of your limited needs. If you need software, you can select Logic Express, with the possibility of moving up to the full Logic if you ever have the need. All of this can be done for under the dollar amount you suggest.

Just offering my own recommendations. YMMV.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Alter

I recently moved to a new house that's really quiet, so for the first time I m thinking of setting up a small home studio. I m only interested in recording guitar (no vocals), or guitar duos at most. Computer will be a mac, and the sound I prefer (from acoustic session work I ve done in the past) is a guitar recorded in stereo with two mics. I see most people use a small and a large Diaphragm condenser mics, so I m not looking at ribbons? I have a small mackie board, so I should just get a two channel AD converter, or should I invest at better mic preamps? Looking for a few suggestions on mic combinations also. Not thinking about reverb, comp or mastering for now, since I can do that at another studio after I record at home. I would like to keep the budget around 2000 euros (think about 2500$). Thanks all

Do you already have nearfield monitors? Have you separately budgeted for room treatment?

With your budget, and assuming you have monitors and room treatment, I would suggest:

1) Replace the Mackie with a higher quality two channel external computer interface. RME, TC Electronic and Apogee make some. This will provide mic preamps, AD conversion, DA conversion, and headphone monitoring.

2) As to mics, a pair of small or medium diaphragm mics (SD or MD) would be appropriate. The Gefell M300 and Beyer MC930 mentioned above are great choices. Both are made in Germany. The Russian made Oktava mics are very good and have the advantage of interchangeable capsules, should you desire later to expand your mic collection. Adding a multiple pattern large diaphragm mic (LD) to a pair of SD or MD mics would give some variety in your recording options. You will need mic stands and quality mic cables.

3) You will also need recording software. There are many choices here. Sometimes, the software is included with the computer interface you purchase (e.g., ProTools is included with the Digidesign/Avid MBox).

If you do not have nearfield monitors and/or have not considered room treatment, both of these need to be addressed. Monitors are absolutely necessary. Room treatment is not required and may not be needed (your room may be tame to begin with), but if it is needed to tame the room, adding treatment will do more for improving your recordings than any other gear you can purchase.

[runamuck]

I'd get an RME interface, a pair of Shure KSM 32's (I've not found much of any source they don't sound at least decent on), spend a $100 on a digital
audio program (Steinberg, Cakewalk etc.) and the rest on room treatment
and monitors.

Jim McCarthy

[Alter]

Thanks to all for all the answers, I really appreciate the help. The reason I want to get home recording together is to be able to do jingles, some commercials and some theatre music, that I usually get calls to do with acoustic guitars. These are jobs I usually had to go to a studio to get done so far, so I m looking to get a setup with enough quality to be used commercially. (I think for the above uses I can get away without external hardware reverb or compressor, and use some mastering program on the mac). So for now I won't get into serious room treatment (too many guitars and amps in the room ..lol), mostly close-micing. I have a pair of tascam monitors, not spectacular but I know their sound (and I ve done homework on monitors so I got some good ideas for when I'll want to upgrade). Software will probably be logic as I've used it a bit and it seemed easy (I m pretty comfortable with computers - really enjoy hassle free work though).

Now for actually recording a cd, the basic reason for doing it at home is being able to record it over say a couple of months (instead of three days), capturing late night takes, things like that. so I d like to have quality enough to be able to take the recording to a studio for final processing. Good cables, mic stands etc ain't much of an issue cause 500$ more or less won't break the bank, but I'm just not looking to buy mega quality gear, just basic pro-level stuff if I can at this price range.

[Joseph Hanna]

I've been fortunate to have traveled all over the world and closer to home lived in every major (and a couple of minor) cities in the US.

I've never had the chance to visit Greece though. Alter... tell me about what kind of motorcycle adventures I could get myself into in Greece?

As to your original question. I've got hundreds, maybe thousands of cues I've done for broadcast. I NEVER sweat the details unless someone specifically tells me I should. In short, most of the time I crank em out with little worry as to mic's, room treatment and or converters. The "sonic" integrity is very, very low on most project coordinators "important" list. They're MUCH more concerned that the cue sounds like what they have imagined in their empty little heads An M-Box Pro (even though I own a HD system) has served me well over the last 3 or 4 years for quick lap top music production and I've sold TON'S of cues using that little thing.

If you like Logic there are ton's of A/D devices that require little investment and for mics I still use a pair of AT 4041's I've had since the day they were released.

Now that said if I was going to do a personal acoustic guitar CD project my thought process would change Titanically. Room treatment first, followed by room treatment and then move on to room treatment. What every money is left after that, I'd put into room treatment.

Just ain't enough "close mic'ing" on Earth that's gonna eliminate the lack of a great room.

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I've been fortunate to have traveled all over the world and closer to home lived in every major (and a couple of minor) cities in the US.

I've never had the chance to visit Greece though. Alter... tell me about what kind of motorcycle adventures I could get myself into in Greece?

As to your original question. I've got hundreds, maybe thousands of cues I've done for broadcast. I NEVER sweat the details unless someone specifically tells me I should. In short, most of the time I crank em out with little worry as to mic's, room treatment and or converters. The "sonic" integrity is very, very low on most project coordinators "important" list. They're MUCH more concerned that the cue sounds like what they have imagined in their empty little heads An M-Box Pro (even though I own a HD system) has served me well over the last 3 or 4 years for quick lap top music production and I've sold TON'S of cues using that little thing.

If you like Logic there are ton's of A/D devices that require little investment and for mics I still use a pair of AT 4041's I've had since the day they were released.

Now that said if I was going to do a personal acoustic guitar CD project my thought process would change Titanically. Room treatment first, followed by room treatment and then move on to room treatment. What every money is left after that, I'd put into room treatment.

Just ain't enough "close mic'ing" on Earth that's gonna eliminate the lack of a great room.

Thank you, Joseph.

Fran

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Now that said if I was going to do a personal acoustic guitar CD project my thought process would change Titanically. Room treatment first, followed by room treatment and then move on to room treatment. What every money is left after that, I'd put into room treatment.

All very true, and certainly wise advice. The question, though, specifically regarded possible signal chains -- but your point is taken.

[Ty Ford]

But don't overtreat!

I have consulted on several projects where the client called me in after foaming an entire room. He then complained that the recordings were too dead.

Ya Think?

A "good space" has a balance of reflective, absorptive and diffusive surfaces. A foam womb is all absorptive.

Then, on a large scale, meaning if you want to actually hear the sound of the room by backing the mics off, you need good geometry and non-parallel walls, ceilings, etc.

Regards,

Ty Ford

PS: There is actually a science/art to designing acoustical spaces. Some people actually make a living doing it.

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

But don't overtreat!

I have consulted on several projects where the client called me in after foaming an entire room. He then complained that the recordings were too dead.

Ya Think?

A "good space" has a balance of reflective, absorptive and diffusive surfaces. A foam womb is all absorptive.

Then, on a large scale, meaning if you want to actually hear the sound of the room by backing the mics off, you need good geometry and non-parallel walls, ceilings, etc.

Regards,

Ty Ford

PS: There is actually a science/art to designing acoustical spaces. Some people actually make a living doing it.

But there's a lot of information available these days, hopefully we're past egg cartons and covering the walls with foam.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studi...ion-acoustics/
http://forum.studiotips.com/index.php
http://www.realtraps.com/info.htm

Fran

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

But there's a lot of information available these days, hopefully we're past egg cartons and covering the walls with foam.

I'd guess most, if not all, of us are not missing the vital necessity of taming our room acoustics. And yes, there is much information out there on acoustics to absorb (pardon the pun) -- including your site, Fran. My hunch is, though, that many of us who record at home can't fully dedicate a room to nothing but recording. That room has to serve as a guest bedroom, or an office space, or a den or a library. Going all-out to make that "lived" space into a bona fide recording space won't sit well with spouses and significant others and won't function within the needs of a family living space. So we make do as we can, understanding the compromises, noting the inconveniences, accepting the imperfections. And yes, avoiding egg cartons on the walls, I would hope.

[Ty Ford]

Kurt,

Dedicating a room to recording doesn't preclude it from being used as a bedroom, or other room. I turned my 12 x 15 basement club room into a recording space. It's about understanding how sound works and what to do with wall panels, furniture and carpeting to get there.

Yes, there are some rooms that will not work as well as others, but we're not talking world-class recording space.

Read, learn, improvise.

Regards,

Ty Ford