More ? On 12 Fret Guitars

[Dryfly]

It occurred to me that since a 12 fret design has the bridge moved a couple of inched down then perhaps an equal adjustment of where the strings are contacted would be in order which would mean more south of the sound hole.
My body size has me naturally picking over the upper half of the sound hole and
I have to really concentrate to consistently go lower. First question is whether or
not my assumtion is correct and then if so how can I adjust the way I hold the guitar to make playing lower down more natural.

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by Dryfly

It occurred to me that since a 12 fret design has the bridge moved a couple of inched down then perhaps an equal adjustment of where the strings are contacted would be in order which would mean more south of the sound hole.

Your thinking is in error. When it comes to modern 12 fret designs almost any configuration seems to be sold by somebody somewhere. Rather than give the history, myths and wives tales of 12 fret guitar designs I'll answer the question as to what I think you are asking. Yes you are probably picking over and around the end of the neck and sound hole. That results in a different tone than if you are picking by the bridge. Personally I don't have that as an issue. Try setting the guitar on your left leg in the classical style and see if that will work for you. Well versed guitarist use the whole picking area as an area to brighten or soften their sound depending on what the music calls for.

[Misifus]

It is possible theorize this to death. I will explain my own experience. Now some builders, like Martin, build 12-frets with a different body shape than a 14-fret. In essence, the position of the bridge is unchanged, just the shape of the body. This is how the square-shouldered body came to be.

However, other builders do as you have suggested, shorten the neck and move the bridge back, farther from the neck. In this case, one might theorize that moving the bridge closer to the center of the lower bout would have an audible effect on the tone of the guitar.

What would happen if we conducted an experiment to test this theory? As is happens, I did just that. I commissioned Jamie Kinscherff to build me one of his High Noon model guitars in adirondack over brazilian, with a cutaway and a twelve fret neck. At the same time, Jamie was building another High Noon in the same woods, also with a cutaway, but with his standard fourteen-fret neck. The two guitars were delivered within a month of each other.

Flash forward one year and my friend and I each put identical new strings on our guitars (GHS 80/20 lights) and we sat down in a quiet room to play our guitars and to swap and play each other’s. At the end of an hour of intense comparison, we both came to the conclusion that we couldn’t hear any difference between them. The twelve fret neck made no difference at all. I suppose I should mention that both were long scale instruments (25.4). They simply played and sounded alike.

This was not what I expected. It is, however, what we got. It was an eye opener.

[62burst]

That's nice. But whether or not I'm a "well versed player", everywhere before and after the soundhole does get played to dial in the sound. The situation for me, described in the "12-fretters Play Differently" thread, and perhaps for that of the OP here, is that the picking hand falls more naturally to a certain area, and a conscious effort must be made to either move the picking hand towards the bridge (which is not an option if you are looking for a warmer tone), or do something along the lines of heavier strings, or increase string height to avoid strings making contact with the frets/fretboard in the area of the fretboard extension.

[Dryfly]

My supposition is that since the whole string length from nut to bridge is moved
down about 2" I would have to move my strumming/picking down the
same amount to compensate to achieve any given tone dependent on the picking
position along the string length. This would be relative to a 14 fret design.

[Dotneck]

Originally Posted by Dryfly

how can I adjust the way I hold the guitar to make playing lower down more natural.

My approach would be to not change the way your hold the guitar. Move your picking hand towards the bridge when you want to pick there...and also move your hand towards the neck when you want to pick there. That way you can take advantage of the different tones available at different parts of the strings...

[phavriluk]

And I've built two closely related (same mold, different thicknesses, different b/s wood, and the 12-fretter has a marvelous amount of bass compared to the 14-fretter. But there's so many differences that I can't suggest that moving the bridge down to the middle of the lower bout added to bass, but I think so. That phenomenon might go some way to explaining how OO and OOO sized guitars deliver what sound hey do, the bridges are farther into the lower bout than a dreadnought bridge would be. Scale length is the same, body's smaller, bridge gotta go somewhere....

[Pitar]

Playing the guitar is an exercise in adapting to it and not vise versa. To say that you can't adapt is to say you won't, and that's where you place limits on yourself. I'm all over the place when plucking or fretting because that's where the music takes me. Now, I can tell myself I'm not going to play anything that takes me out of my comfort zone, or I can practice my shady side off and make the entire guitar my comfort zone. It's a conscious choice and adapting is no different than learning the chord shapes and moving between them fluidly. It's just another aspect of practice.

[lfarhadi]

As others have noted, there is a lot of variability in the body shape of a 12-fretter vs 14-fretter. Some, like Martin, made the adjustment at the shoulders (round vs square), and some, like Gibson, kept the same body shape and moved the neck (to oversimplify a bit). These and other variables will determine the answer to your question.

To me, the only consistent difference b/w 12 and 14 fretters is that the 12 fretter, by definition, has a shorter neck (to-body). Most luthiers I've spoken to believe that this efficiency in sound transmission is really what accounts for the difference in tone.

[BluesBelly]

Dryfly,
When considering where the player holds his picking hand one issue seldom addressed is string spacing.
As we know a guitar string set is tapered from the saddle to the nut and varies between instruments and manufacturers. Somewhere along this taper Is the most comfortable spacing for the picking hand. Being primarily a fingerstyle player I find this “SWEET ZONE” by playing a Travis pattern with my picking hand while moving it forward and aft along the string set until the spacing feels optimized (read: most comfortable for my picking hand in all respects).
Having done this on all of my acoustic guitars (I have quite a few) I have discovered over the years that the most comfortable string spacing for me is about 2-1/16” on any guitar, everyone’s mileage may vary. Whenever I’m in that zone I play my best music. Wherever this point is along the string set, that’s where I play.
I’m a tall guy with 37” sleeve length so sometimes it becomes a challenge to find a comfortable optimized playing position on small bodied guitars as I imagine a player with short arms might find issue with large bodies.

Blues