Installed my HFN today

[TNO]

Offsetting the pickup didn't work for me either.

I really think the key is only using adhesive on 1/3 or 1/4 of the middle foot.
This seems to do two things- it attenuates the level of the middle strings, but also appears to minimize interaction of the middle foot with the outer ones avoiding phase cancellation.

[SpruceTop]

This whole installation thing reminds me of the old Stealer's Wheel song, "Stuck In The Middle With You"

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by TNO

How much of the middle foot did you cover with the tape?

I put tape over most of it. I went back and tested it again and I think this install was the best though. The low E at times sounds a bit distant but it is coming through my PA quite clearly. The only downside is that there's a bit of this honky/hollow mid thing going on where it always sounds like I could be on the verge of feedback but then it never gets there. I am wondering if possibly the middle foot isn't really making much contact resulting in this tone. Someone else had this issue. Les recommended not putting anything on the middle foot. It helped with balance but created feedback.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Thanks for the report. This is all beyond me. Point me to a DI and let me plug in.

sm

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I put tape over most of it. I went back and tested it again and I think this install was the best though. The low E at times sounds a bit distant but it is coming through my PA quite clearly. The only downside is that there's a bit of this honky/hollow mid thing going on where it always sounds like I could be on the verge of feedback but then it never gets there. I am wondering if possibly the middle foot isn't really making much contact resulting in this tone. Someone else had this issue. Les recommended not putting anything on the middle foot. It helped with balance but created feedback.

From my personal experience, and from reading that of others in these HFN threads, the successful installation of an HFN seems to be rather tedious and hit-or-miss. To help facilitate a successful installation, try my Soundhole C-Clamp installation process. Although I recommend the lightweight Stewart-MacDonald Soundhole C-Clamps, any regular c-clamp with a throat depth sufficient to reach the pickup without first hitting the soundhole would work. The down-side is that regular c-clamps are somewhat heavier than the tubular-construction Stew-Mac clamps. You'll need two C-clamps for your HFN or use a piece of wood to distribute the force of one c-clamp along the top rail of the HFN.

If using Trance tape, use a razor blade, either metal or plastic, to separate enough of the protective covering away from the adhesive to enable your fingers to grab the protective covering to gently peel it entirely away from the adhesive. Once successfully applied to the feet of an HFN, and when using my c-clamp method for 12 hours, the Trance tape will hold all three feet of the HFN to the bridgeplate. Schatten claims that the new HFN base has some flexibility to it and thus my method will work to secure all three feet of the HFN to the bridgeplate if that outcome is desired. Of course, you could use Trance tape to also secure only two or even two-and-a-half feet of an HFN to the bridgeplate.

If all three feet of the HFN aren't always necessarily meant to have to make contact with the bridgeplate, then Schatten needs to redesign their HFN base with only two feet to lessen installation problems for users.

[stevecuss]

I think all non permanent SBT installations can be this way. I have the same Trance that I have now installed in two different guitars. It sounded good in my first guitar and fantastic in the second.

Dazzo users including Teddy himself all claim that Dazzos need a little moving around the find the spot.

Looking at the two HFN threads lately, the majority seem to have really loved it and a few have struggled. Its really unfortunate, given all Petty's efforts, that the HFN isn't working for him. Might be a faulty unit, might be something odd with the bridge plate, but I think the HFN seems to be getting a high level of satisfaction overall, much like the Dazzo and Trance.

And FWIW, I tried a Dazzo in a Lowden jumbo and it was unusable due to how much it picked up speaking voice. But others have absolutely loved it.

So yeah....YMMV etc.

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

From my personal experience, and from reading that of others in these HFN threads, the successful installation of an HFN seems to be rather tedious and hit-or-miss. To help facilitate a successful installation, try my Soundhole C-Clamp installation process. Although I recommend the lightweight Stewart-MacDonald Soundhole C-Clamps, any regular c-clamp with a throat depth sufficient to reach the pickup without first hitting the soundhole would work. The down-side is that regular c-clamps are somewhat heavier than the tubular-construction Stew-Mac clamps. You'll need two C-clamps for your HFN or use a piece of wood to distribute the force of one c-clamp along the top rail of the HFN.

If using Trance tape, use a razor blade, either metal or plastic, to separate enough of the protective covering away from the adhesive to enable your fingers to grab the protective covering to gently peel it entirely away from the adhesive. Once successfully applied to the feet of an HFN, and when using my c-clamp method for 12 hours, the Trance tape will hold all three feet of the HFN to the bridgeplate. Schatten claims that the new HFN base has some flexibility to it and thus my method will work to secure all three feet of the HFN to the bridgeplate if that outcome is desired. Of course, you could use Trance tape to also secure only two or even two-and-a-half feet of an HFN to the bridgeplate.

If all three feet of the HFN aren't always necessarily meant to have to make contact with the bridgeplate, then Schatten needs to redesign their HFN base with only two feet to lessen installation problems for users.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

From my personal experience, and from reading that of others in these HFN threads, the successful installation of an HFN seems to be rather tedious and hit-or-miss. To help facilitate a successful installation, try my Soundhole C-Clamp installation process. Although I recommend the lightweight Stewart-MacDonald Soundhole C-Clamps, any regular c-clamp with a throat depth sufficient to reach the pickup without first hitting the soundhole would work. The down-side is that regular c-clamps are somewhat heavier than the tubular-construction Stew-Mac clamps. You'll need two C-clamps for your HFN or use a piece of wood to distribute the force of one c-clamp along the top rail of the HFN.

If using Trance tape, use a razor blade, either metal or plastic, to separate enough of the protective covering away from the adhesive to enable your fingers to grab the protective covering to gently peel it entirely away from the adhesive. Once successfully applied to the feet of an HFN, and when using my c-clamp method for 12 hours, the Trance tape will hold all three feet of the HFN to the bridgeplate. Schatten claims that the new HFN base has some flexibility to it and thus my method will work to secure all three feet of the HFN to the bridgeplate if that outcome is desired. Of course, you could use Trance tape to also secure only two or even two-and-a-half feet of an HFN to the bridgeplate.

If all three feet of the HFN aren't always necessarily meant to have to make contact with the bridgeplate, then Schatten needs to redesign their HFN base with only two feet to lessen installation problems for users.

I really do think I got a bad batch of red tape. The tape that initially came with the Amulet M was fairly easy to remove with a razor blade. The replacement tape almost seems to have adhered to the point where I cannot remove the red covering without the adhesive portion ripping away with it. Having said that, the tape that Schatten provides is about the same thickness. It would probably work fine but it comes in thin strips that won't fit the Amulet transducers.

[Petty1818]

I contacted Les and he was great. He's going to send me a new HFN to try out. I just want to give a shout out to his help!

I need a pickup for my next show in a week and since the HFN is now out (I am sending this one back to get looked at), I needed something else. I have two jacks so it makes experimentation a bit easier.

I installed the Anthem and to be honest, I actually prefer the woody tone of the HFN. The Anthem has this high end presence that's even present with a full UST blend. I will admit that the tru-mic is great and the guitar has a bit more clarity but the HFN holds its own and it makes my guitar sound bigger/warmer.

[GuitarLuva]

Hopefully it was something with that particular pickup. Always nice to hear a manufacturer standing by their products and helping out. As an owner of both those pickups in question, the Schatten, for me, turned out to be a pure plug and play solution, no EQ or anything else needed and it sounds like my guitar just amplified. I found with the Anthem it needed some serious EQ and some analog saturation to help tame the harshness of the tru mic. While I was able to dial in a nice natural sound, I just thought that it didn't sound like my guitar amplified. It's still a nice system though, just ultimately not for me.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Hopefully it was something with that particular pickup. Always nice to hear a manufacturer standing by their products and helping out. As an owner of both those pickups in question, the Schatten, for me, turned out to be a pure plug and play solution, no EQ or anything else needed and it sounds like my guitar just amplified. I found with the Anthem it needed some serious EQ and some analog saturation to help tame the harshness of the tru mic. While I was able to dial in a nice natural sound, I just thought that it didn't sound like my guitar amplified. It's still a nice system though, just ultimately not for me.

Interestingly enough, since I have a show next weekend and since my HFN had to be removed (waiting on the new one), I took this opportunity to try out the full Anthem. I had the SL version before but there was always just too much tru-mic and a honky quality. I installed the Anthem myself a couple of days ago. It was quite easy since I already had an output jack hole and I just used the same saddle I had used for the SL so the action was good.

Anyway, I had string balance issues to start so I just lightly sanded the saddle and all was good. This was a bit odd since I never had those issues with the SL and as mentioned, this was the same saddle.

After testing it for a while through my Grace Design Felix, I did get a good sense of the tone. I will say that I like it far more than the SL version. I know some people run it all the way to the tru-mic side which is basically the SL version but it's too twangy and honky there. I actually like the a 50/50 blend. What shocked me the most was how good the Element sounded. Obviously it's all piezo so not natural but it makes my guitar sound pretty huge with nice warmth.

A couple of downsides though. First, the tru-mic is noisy. When all the way to the UST, the signal is dead quiet. As I blend in the mic, there's quite a bit of hiss introduced. I am going to try unplugging the tru-mic and using the blend to see if it's an issue with the sound hole control module or if there's something wrong with the tru-mic itself. Second, I don't love the tone of the tru-mic where it is. I found out that Lr Baggs offers three alternate locations (one behind the saddle and one along the brace at the treble side of the saddle). Apparently these alternate positions can help cut down the twang or honky characteristic that some guitars have. Hopefully that helps.

As for the Anthem/HFN comparison, I do agree that the HFN takes less eq. However, I would probably still be more comfortable plugging in the Anthem at any show. The HFN still worries me a bit with feedback. The one thing the HFN has that the Anthem doesn't is the nice, woody tone. After playing both, I feel as though the HFN sounds more like a part of my guitar where as the Anthem still plays like a pickup (if that makes sense). I still feel that an HFN/tonedexter set up might be best but since this guitar is a stage guitar most of the time, I might just leave the Anthem in and use the HFN for future guitar purchases.

[guitaniac]

It seems like every guitar/pickup pairing is its own unique adventure. I find it a little ironic that GuitarLuva started much HFN experimentation when he abandoned an Anthem system for the HFN SBT. Now you seem to have taken us full circle.

Have you tried the Anthem through the Session DI yet? That seems like an obvious match. The Baggs folks have likely optimized the Session for use with their own pickups.

[The Kid!]

It could have to do with the install, the guitar, or both.

I'm going to put an HFN in my 2016 J-45 and my Washburn based on what it sounds like in my 1952 J-45. I'll have my tech do it because he got it perfect on my '52 J-45. Hopefully he can recreate the magic.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

It could have to do with the install, the guitar, or both.

Are you referring to the HFN or the issues with the Anthem?

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

It seems like every guitar/pickup pairing is its own unique adventure. I find it a little ironic that GuitarLuva started much HFN experimentation when he abandoned an Anthem system for the HFN SBT. Now you seem to have taken us full circle.

Have you tried the Anthem through the Session DI yet? That seems like an obvious match. The Baggs folks have likely optimized the Session for use with their own pickups.

It's funny, I first started out with a Matrix Blend system back in 2006. About three years ago I really started to experiment. I was looking for a more natural tone. Although I found it with multiple pickups (Lyric, Anthem SL,Amulet M), I really could not find the enhanced bass that I was searching for as well. The HFN has that, I just need to figure out the balance issue so hopefully the new one comes soon. The Element UST portion gives me a nice big bass but I do think I need to re-position the mic.

With that said, I think for me, there's a compromise between 100% natural and having enough bass available. I feel I am happiest when the tone of my guitar comes through but if there's a bit of piezo tone there as well, I am fine, as long as I get that enhanced bass. The HFN and Anthem seem to meet those expectations.

I have the session DI but I have to be honest, it hasn't really wow'd me. I keep trying to include it in my rig but I am not sure it's adding much. Crazy thing is, I ran into it and then my K10 speaker when first trying my Anthem and it sounded awful. It wasn't until I used my Felix that things sounded better. It was the same with the HFN. I thought the Session DI also had a preamp but with both pickups it didn't add much.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

It's funny, I first started out with a Matrix Blend system back in 2006. About three years ago I really started to experiment. I was looking for a more natural tone. Although I found it with multiple pickups (Lyric, Anthem SL,Amulet M), I really could not find the enhanced bass that I was searching for as well. The HFN has that, I just need to figure out the balance issue so hopefully the new one comes soon. The Element UST portion gives me a nice big bass but I do think I need to re-position the mic.

With that said, I think for me, there's a compromise between 100% natural and having enough bass available. I feel I am happiest when the tone of my guitar comes through but if there's a bit of piezo tone there as well, I am fine, as long as I get that enhanced bass. The HFN and Anthem seem to meet those expectations.

I have the session DI but I have to be honest, it hasn't really wow'd me. I keep trying to include it in my rig but I am not sure it's adding much. Crazy thing is, I ran into it and then my K10 speaker when first trying my Anthem and it sounded awful. It wasn't until I used my Felix that things sounded better. It was the same with the HFN. I thought the Session DI also had a preamp but with both pickups it didn't add much.

The Felix is a great piece of gear. I'd think it would help you get a better bass end, with the notch available to help if you get into feedback issues.

Since you have the Felix, have you considered a mag/HFN pairing? Schatten Design has a stereo strap-jack preamp which you could use to get the signals out of the guitar, and you could blend them with the Felix. (Adding a second jack is another option, but most folks prefer going out stereo from one jack.)

In any event, with a mag/HFN pairing you could get most of the bass from the most feedback resistant pickup.