Very Lightweight Active Speaker advice

[thistle]

Thank you Jon, it certainly does sound like it would work for me. Do you like it a lot better than the Yamaha you used to use?

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by TubeG

The math doesn't add up, this is from the user manual,

Battery Information Battery Type Lithium Ion Capacity 5200 mAh Nominal Voltage 7.4 V DC

not sure how to get 150Watt RMS from this battery size? Maybe close to 40Watt if they can draw 5A max from the battery.

40 watts continuous, with 10 dB of headroom for peaks, would actually work out to 400 watts. My guess is the Freeplay is a 30 watt continuous average design with 10 db of headroom which the marketing team turned into 150 RMS and 300 peak. Likely that battery can sustain that for only an hour. This is how a 100 watt CP8 gets a 1000 watt rating on its spec sheet. Unlike the days of old and various class AB amps where RMS was undistorted peak, class D designs can be made to produce undistorted peaks well above the average power.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by thistle

Thank you Jon, it certainly does sound like it would work for me. Do you like it a lot better than the Yamaha you used to use?

I like it better for size, weight, comfortable handle, control locations, maybe dispersion, and just a better quality feel. For on axis sound I think it is about the same. The CP8 was better with our bass guitar when we tried them back-to-back against the DBR10.

But unlike some of the low end speakers (Gemini comes to mind), Behringer products sound fine to me. Part of the reason I went with a QSC K10 when we first ditched the pair of B208D's was to convince my partner that I was not "cheaping out" or getting lazy (which I was).

[zhunter]

Our bass player bought a couple of those B208Ds to use as monitors and jam space speakers. Within 6 months they had both, yes both, stopped working or working intermittently. Popping, static, loud hums and some silence. They would be working fine then not. Not abused in any way either. Sadly, I think he finally gave them away.

I know it is fashionable to look askance at Behringer and I try to avoid preconceived notions. He bought the speakers in good faith. But our experience with those two speakers made me pretty reluctant to go to Behringer speakers. OTOH I have a couple of other Behringer products that have been good performers.

Maybe a run of bad luck with those particular speakers.

hunter

[Hurricane Ramon]

Originally Posted by TubeG

The math doesn't add up, this is from the user manual,

Battery Information Battery Type Lithium Ion Capacity 5200 mAh Nominal Voltage 7.4 V DC

not sure how to get 150Watt RMS from this battery size? Maybe close to 40Watt if they can draw 5A max from the battery.

Bottom line is :

It's loud , clear , great FX stand alone and gets the job done with out
breaking my back .

I have side by sided Bose S-1 , several Roland Cubes & & other acoustic guitar amps & a Fishman all with
similar power & spec's . The Mackie did best with my synths and vocal IMHO . Hands down the others just do not
cut the heavy synth sounds in comparison .

Also the vocal - with my MFX T.C.Helicon Voicelive 3 Extreme unit the vocal FX are nothing short of stunning .
All that while looping and layering .

What ever your thoughts are in what you believe/conclude comes with out hands on use I would surmise because
those who use these know how well they compare with other FRFR P.A.'s , acoustic guitar amps and personal monitors .

This small little amp is quite a performer given it's size . The OP was stating weight being of importance . There are trade offs
when you compromise the size of any speaker system , this kicks serious business for what's it is set out to do in
addressing size/weight @ under 15LBS . Most of the suggested alternatives were well over 20 LBS so that IMHO
doesn't address her issue well while a Bose S-1 & Mackie FP do .

A small coffee house gig in a small room stuff , outdoors with a wall behind you will yield some powerful sound busking .
Live outdoors on the street/park I have yet to turn it up full volume because it's works that good .

On the spec's - if you advertise a set of specs and the unit in question does not deliver you can ( the manufacturer ) be
held liable for false advertisement fraud .

Mackie is huge they are not going to court a potential lawsuit that would damage the image of the companies integrity .

That is my one and only gripe with Bose , they do not list their amp specs and I like Bose a lot too .

EZ :

HR

[stephenT]

the powered JBL w/ the 10 inch woofer is light, powerful, flexible,.. sounds transparent, great dispersion,.. if you can find a used unit.

[Hurricane Ramon]

This a consideration I have been thinking on getting . I don't like having to haul
a heavy car battery , but inside where there's power I could think this could cut it X2

Behringer Eurolive B210D 200W 10" Powered Speaker



@ 18 LBS it's not a bad choice .

I have followed this solo looping artist for a few years now , he uses one of these . To power it when he's off power
busking he uses a small car battery and DC to AC inverter . During the time I first discover him I have noticed him using
this powered speaker . He has taken it on the road from Spain to Bulgaria , Croatia , Italy , France , The Nederlands ,
Germany , England and India .

That speaker has done some traveling and still sounds great . He also is using a T.C.Helicon VoiceLive 3
MFX/Looper unit he's had at lest 3 years . .

He's in Austin TX. now at a Loopers Festival . He's on Face Book .

He's traveling the US now and started in Fla and traveled to the west hitting Arizona & California .

This video is him in Nice France using that Behringer 10" powered speaker :



EZ :

HR

[thistle]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

But unlike some of the low end speakers (Gemini comes to mind), Behringer products sound fine to me. Part of the reason I went with a QSC K10 when we first ditched the pair of B208D's was to convince my partner that I was not "cheaping out" or getting lazy (which I was).

You're making a good case for the B208Ds. I'm going to have to do some thinking - if the B208D would do the job, it would make my life easier.

I like having nice gear, but over the last year I have needed to sell my very high end guitars so I am left with two mid to low end factory guitars. They both have K&Ks and are more than up to the job, and I've found I've not missed the other guitars as much as I thought I would. My need is really for adequate gear rather than perfect. Many successful soloists here use the Yamaha Stagepas with 8" speakers, I wonder if the B208D would be on a par with them? In any case I have a lot to think about and will not be making a purchase until I have a chance to try out the B208Ds in person.

-edit- the other replies hadn't shown up when I first wrote this. It seems there is some question about the Behringer's reliability. I don't want to be a victim of buy-cheap-buy-twice so I will continue to save and get a CP8. I will also have a look at the JBL.

Hurricane Ramone have you thought about getting a lithium battery? The one I use for busking is a 36-hole golf trolley battery, it is quite small and much lighter in weight than a lead acid car or leisure battery. Mine also has a usb port and if you use something like a Songbird FX cable, you can power a pedal straight from the battery. The guy in the video does sound great!

I have just bought a pair of QSC CP8s and as far as I’m concerned they are staggeringly good. I replaced some heavy RCF 10 inch speakers and I’m so glad I did. They are light.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by zhunter

Our bass player bought a couple of those B208Ds to use as monitors and jam space speakers. Within 6 months they had both, yes both, stopped working or working intermittently. Popping, static, loud hums and some silence. They would be working fine then not. Not abused in any way either. Sadly, I think he finally gave them away.

I know it is fashionable to look askance at Behringer and I try to avoid preconceived notions. He bought the speakers in good faith. But our experience with those two speakers made me pretty reluctant to go to Behringer speakers. OTOH I have a couple of other Behringer products that have been good performers.

Maybe a run of bad luck with those particular speakers.

hunter

One of my B208D's did have warranty repair for a rubbing woofer voice coil. It was all relatively painless and handled via UPS. Since we put bass guitar through them I don't think we were treating them with kid gloves.

I did have a pair of JBL 510s between the Behingers and the single K10 which I forgot to mention. They both started to buzz loudly with bass guitar after a few months. I took them to JBL service in-person where it was explained to me there was no problem with their standard test signal. I later learned that it had a fairly obscure woofer voice coil design (differential neodymium) and this was the nature of the beast. I'd take those Behringers over those JBLs any day. I think one off horror stories are easy to find. For a bigger picture I like Amazon's customer feedback. If there is a real problem it will be there over and over for any mainstream product.

[zhunter]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

One of my B208D's did have warranty repair for a rubbing woofer voice coil. It was all relatively painless and handled via UPS. Since we put bass guitar through them I don't think we were treating them with kid gloves.

I did have a pair of JBL 510s between the Behingers and the single K10 which I forgot to mention. They both started to buzz loudly with bass guitar after a few months. I took them to JBL service in-person where it was explained to me there was no problem with their standard test signal. I later learned that it had a fairly obscure woofer voice coil design (differential neodymium) and this was the nature of the beast. I'd take those Behringers over those JBLs any day. I think one off horror stories are easy to find. For a bigger picture I like Amazon's customer feedback. If there is a real problem it will be there over and over for any mainstream product.

I get that a "one off" experience is not the whole story. But when it is your one off maybe the impact is a little greater. I have a couple of other Behringer problem stories but they are different products (hot spot monitor, analog board). With an older event timeline. And some products have worked out. I do think Behringer overall has raised their game.

No handle is a drag and a bag will add to your cost but I think a bag would be necessary. I like a speaker bag for protection anyway handles or not. And if at all possible, try em out. My other experience which is more subjective, is they may be a little light on output especially given you are already having issues with the AER volume being insufficient.

I think for the OP with the hard constraints on price and weight, the 208Ds seem tailor made. Maybe the only reasonable choice short of upping the budget. Just thought my experience was a relevant consideration.

hunter

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by zhunter

I think for the OP with the hard constraints on price and weight, the 208Ds seem tailor made. Maybe the only reasonable choice short of upping the budget. Just thought my experience was a relevant consideration.

hunter

I agree. A CP8 over a DBR10 is only a couple of pounds lighter plus a good top side handle. Not a world of change. No problem for an unrepentant well funded perfectionist like me, but I think the OP would be well served by the Behringer too. It is lighter because it has less peak power, which she does not need.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Mojo21

I have just bought a pair of QSC CP8s and as far as I’m concerned they are staggeringly good. I replaced some heavy RCF 10 inch speakers and I’m so glad I did. They are light.

I am glad to see that the CP8’s are getting good reviews from actual users. I need two monitors/mains for smaller shows and thought the k8.2 or original k8s would be better than the CP series. This doesn’t seem to really be the case. I feel like one would be hard pressed to tell the tonal difference between the original K8 and the Cp8.

[TubeG]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

40 watts continuous, with 10 dB of headroom for peaks, would actually work out to 400 watts. My guess is the Freeplay is a 30 watt continuous average design with 10 db of headroom which the marketing team turned into 150 RMS and 300 peak. Likely that battery can sustain that for only an hour. This is how a 100 watt CP8 gets a 1000 watt rating on its spec sheet. Unlike the days of old and various class AB amps where RMS was undistorted peak, class D designs can be made to produce undistorted peaks well above the average power.

appreciate the explaination, I guess with class-d manufacturer's can rate it as high as possible. It is confusing but if that what QSC and Mackie are doing, it is acceptable standard now. Do you know why they added 10db headroom in the calculation? - maybe you can help with the verifying this calculation, Let's say Class have +20VDC power supply and into a 4 ohm speaker, with a 40V swing from Class-D, that would be 400Watt peak. is that how the calculation is done?

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by TubeG

appreciate the explaination, I guess with class-d manufacturer's can rate it as high as possible. It is confusing but if that what QSC and Mackie are doing, it is acceptable standard now. Do you know why they added 10db headroom in the calculation? - maybe you can help with the verifying this calculation, Let's say Class have +20VDC power supply and into a 4 ohm speaker, with a 40V swing from Class-D, that would be 400Watt peak. is that how the calculation is done?

It is definitely more complicated than trying to spec the power supply rails like you might with an A-B design. A switching power supply could generate an arbitrarily high power supply voltage that has very little ability to sustain much current (power). When a small PA speaker, like a K8.2 has a 2KW rating, which a standard 15A, 120V wall outlet can't sustain, you know something is being marketed rather than engineered. Also, given the actually physical speaker is less than 10% efficient, most of that 2KW is going to end up as heat. That small box will be hotter than a toaster oven.

I think for the battery powered stuff you can easily take the battery capacity, divide it across a 3 set gig, assume something on the order of 80% efficiency for the amp and determine the likely continuous power in a practical application. The nice thing about modern class-D designs is they can generate those peaks, as long as they are brief, and make peak power a much more useful spec than pushing a square wave through a Fender Twin Reverb to get its peak power (for the same power supply rail voltage, a square wave is twice the power of a sine wave).

10 dB (10x power) is a good rule of thumb for peak to average power for music. It is not from electrical engineering. An amp that can briefly reproduce those 10x peaks is going to sound a lot better than one that can't, at least for acoustic music (Hendrix and Page might have a different application and opinion). When QSC rates their speakers at 2KW, what I think is this is something that can play real music at 200 watts continuous, which no Marshall stack could ever achieve. I've tested my speakers at the loudest volume I could stand, and using an AC power meter have guesstimated the continuous power was only 5 watts. A 200 watt continuous K8.2 would be painfully loud even at a large distance outdoors.

The true bottom line is you've got to try it and see if it works for you.