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  #46  
Old 03-03-2019, 07:05 PM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
I don't believe he was saying it was acceptable, just stating the facts as they are. People are now, more than ever, being connected by technology more than human contact. We are being de-humanized by technology and it's happening quickly.
I couldn't agree more .
As for myself , I lived most of my life without computers , so I am familiar with life before tech as it is .
My concern is with those that never lived a day without tech .
I recall a conversation back in the early 90's with a guy that was a civil engineer .
He told me of a power failure that made it impossible for him to do his job because the computers were down . I asked him about pencils , paper and slide rules and he was dumbfounded .
Bottom line is that he could do his job , but it was not as convenient and he only wanted to rationalize his not wanting to put forth the effort .
I could go on ...
I have no issues with tools whether they be manual or tech . What I do have an issue with is dependency , and we surely are headed that way .
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  #47  
Old 03-03-2019, 07:13 PM
JamminPA JamminPA is offline
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Originally Posted by Otterhound View Post
First of all , welcome .
Am I correct in thinking that you agree that a loss in the ability to make personal connections with other humans is an acceptable loss for the " progress " of human society ?
If so , what is that progress ?
Thanks, I've been lurking for a bit and noticed there are good conversations in all of the sub forums.

No not acceptable at all. The progress we have made in terms of technology and how it has benefited society, has come with a steep price. When we look back at history and can see the evolution of interpersonal relationship/communications, and how they have been the foundation of community survival per se, and then look at how we communicate today, that worries me a bit. Technology has completely changed the dynamics of how we communicate with each other. I'm 50 and I really hope that the younger generation can see and understand how big of a deal this is. If you ask and millennial where the phrase "hang up" came from regarding using a phone, many won't even know...haha!! they never really experienced reliance on a landline or being tethered to the wall...haha!!
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  #48  
Old 03-03-2019, 07:17 PM
RedJoker RedJoker is offline
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Originally Posted by Otterhound View Post
I couldn't agree more .
As for myself , I lived most of my life without computers , so I am familiar with life before tech as it is .
My concern is with those that never lived a day without tech .
I recall a conversation back in the early 90's with a guy that was a civil engineer .
He told me of a power failure that made it impossible for him to do his job because the computers were down . I asked him about pencils , paper and slide rules and he was dumbfounded .
Bottom line is that he could do his job , but it was not as convenient and he only wanted to rationalize his not wanting to put forth the effort .
I could go on ...
I have no issues with tools whether they be manual or tech . What I do have an issue with is dependency , and we surely are headed that way .
Why go back to drafting, slide rules, etc? Wouldn't they still have to do the computer stuff once it's up and running so why do it twice?
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  #49  
Old 03-03-2019, 07:17 PM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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Originally Posted by JamminPA View Post
Thanks, I've been lurking for a bit and noticed there are good conversations in all of the sub forums.

No not acceptable at all. The progress we have made in terms of technology and how it has benefited society, has come with a steep price. When we look back at history and can see the evolution of interpersonal relationship/communications, and how they have been the foundation of community survival per se, and then look at how we communicate today, that worries me a bit. Technology has completely changed the dynamics of how we communicate with each other. I'm 50 and I really hope that the younger generation can see and understand how big of a deal this is. If you ask and millennial where the phrase "hang up" came from regarding using a phone, many won't even know...haha!! they never really experienced reliance on a landline or being tethered to the wall...haha!!
Some can , but I fear that most won't . Sadly , this will leave so many at a severe disadvantage .
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  #50  
Old 03-03-2019, 07:36 PM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Everyone is still trying to figure out how they built those dang Pyramids.
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  #51  
Old 03-03-2019, 09:19 PM
Paddy1951 Paddy1951 is offline
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A lot of this is the stuff science fiction is made of. Only it isn't science fiction.
It is not the technology, per se. It is that technology moves very fast and humans cannot or will not take control of it.

Before HAL has complete control of your life, hang up, turn it off. We don't have to be connected every minute of every day.
Before children cannot function and learn, be interactive with one another, without devices, take control of technology.
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  #52  
Old 03-03-2019, 10:16 PM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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Originally Posted by Paddy1951 View Post
A lot of this is the stuff science fiction is made of. Only it isn't science fiction.
It is not the technology, per se. It is that technology moves very fast and humans cannot or will not take control of it.

Before HAL has complete control of your life, hang up, turn it off. We don't have to be connected every minute of every day.
Before children cannot function and learn, be interactive with one another, without devices, take control of technology.
Colossus , The Forbin Project came 2 years after HAL with a different story line .
Humans are herd animals and they will tend to go where led .
In the past , banishment was almost a certain death which supported the herd mentality . Today , the unlike is akin to the banishment of the past .
It is science , but it isn't fiction . I am concerned about where this is headed and about the motives of those leading the charge .
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  #53  
Old 03-03-2019, 10:23 PM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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Originally Posted by RedJoker View Post
Why go back to drafting, slide rules, etc? Wouldn't they still have to do the computer stuff once it's up and running so why do it twice?
If there is a deadline that must be met ......
The original part of my house certainly was built without blueprints .
It's not the idea of having to do it twice that alarms me . It is the fact that the alternative way was completely dismissed .
The Golden Gate Bridge , Empire State Building , Hoover Dam , SR-71 , F1 Rocket engine and so many things were built with what many consider to be archaic methods . It would be a real shame to lose them only to find them necessary at a later time . I call that an unnecessary waste .
Anything that you become dependent upon has the power to subjugate you .
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  #54  
Old 03-04-2019, 06:02 AM
Murphy Slaw Murphy Slaw is offline
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I don't think it's the smart phone that is the problem.
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Last edited by Murphy Slaw; 03-04-2019 at 06:23 AM.
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  #55  
Old 03-04-2019, 06:30 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw View Post
I don't think it's the smart phone that is the problem.
I don't either, but you know, "forum rules" prohibit certain things.
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  #56  
Old 03-04-2019, 06:49 AM
Otterhound Otterhound is offline
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Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw View Post
I don't think it's the smart phone that is the problem.
Did this specific problem exist before the smartphone ?
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  #57  
Old 03-04-2019, 06:59 AM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is offline
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Oh, please! One might ask if these forums are a symptom of some sort of mental health crisis as well.

IMO isolationism is as much of a mental health crisis than the Narcissistic need for nothing but positive feedback from faceless "followers." There has to be balance - and a big part of that is having the mental discipline to know when they stand in the way of personal growth.

Personally I think phones/tablets/cellular devices are great ways to keep in touch with people who we are unable to interact with face to face. That hasn't changed in over 100 years. The only thing that has changed is the methodology and how ubiquitous they are and how they allow people to have a voice or to make themselves more available for personal or professional gain.

For example, I wish YouTube and Instagram had been around when I graduated from college with a visual arts degree 25 years ago. I struggled to find work and my only avenue was to go to Kinko's and print out my digital artwork and photography on expensive glossy paper and pay for postage to mail them to businesses who often times just threw them in the trash and didn't even do me the courtesy of a rejection letter. When I did land a job with a client who was hundreds of miles away I had to buy expensive SyQuest or ZIP drives and pay for postage to ship them because I didn't have broadband internet access to even FTP them. Now kids can just post their portfolios and projects online.

Beside that though, I see these devices as relatively inexpensive ways to provide assistance for communication and socialization to those who would otherwise not have them. For example, despite this overwhelming belief that we're becoming more Narcissistic there is also a pandemic of developmental delays and functionally disabled people who do not have a voice of their own - or at least they didn't until technology started becoming available that allowed them to communication. Some have trouble speaking, so there is now software out there that allows them to speak through their devices. Some have trouble prioritizing, so now there are apps out there that provide them with schedules and reminders. Some have trouble even making eye contact in order to make friends and end up feeling awkward or ashamed, but they have no trouble making eye contact with a camera and the feedback they get is more than they could have hoped for before through "traditional" forms of socialization where they would often be shunned.

So are cell phones a symptom of a mental disease? IMO, no. I see the real problem is one of mere information overload. WE have to adjust.
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  #58  
Old 03-04-2019, 07:00 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterhound View Post
Did this specific problem exist before the smartphone ?
Speaking only for myself, this problem has existed for a long, long time.
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  #59  
Old 03-04-2019, 08:32 AM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil K Walk View Post
Oh, please! One might ask if these forums are a symptom of some sort of mental health crisis as well.

IMO isolationism is as much of a mental health crisis than the Narcissistic need for nothing but positive feedback from faceless "followers." There has to be balance - and a big part of that is having the mental discipline to know when they stand in the way of personal growth.

Personally I think phones/tablets/cellular devices are great ways to keep in touch with people who we are unable to interact with face to face. That hasn't changed in over 100 years. The only thing that has changed is the methodology and how ubiquitous they are and how they allow people to have a voice or to make themselves more available for personal or professional gain.

For example, I wish YouTube and Instagram had been around when I graduated from college with a visual arts degree 25 years ago. I struggled to find work and my only avenue was to go to Kinko's and print out my digital artwork and photography on expensive glossy paper and pay for postage to mail them to businesses who often times just threw them in the trash and didn't even do me the courtesy of a rejection letter. When I did land a job with a client who was hundreds of miles away I had to buy expensive SyQuest or ZIP drives and pay for postage to ship them because I didn't have broadband internet access to even FTP them. Now kids can just post their portfolios and projects online.

Beside that though, I see these devices as relatively inexpensive ways to provide assistance for communication and socialization to those who would otherwise not have them. For example, despite this overwhelming belief that we're becoming more Narcissistic there is also a pandemic of developmental delays and functionally disabled people who do not have a voice of their own - or at least they didn't until technology started becoming available that allowed them to communication. Some have trouble speaking, so there is now software out there that allows them to speak through their devices. Some have trouble prioritizing, so now there are apps out there that provide them with schedules and reminders. Some have trouble even making eye contact in order to make friends and end up feeling awkward or ashamed, but they have no trouble making eye contact with a camera and the feedback they get is more than they could have hoped for before through "traditional" forms of socialization where they would often be shunned.

So are cell phones a symptom of a mental disease? IMO, no. I see the real problem is one of mere information overload. WE have to adjust.
You can do all this with a home computer or laptop. It does not mean we have to walk around with Smart Phones all day long glued to us. Which is what is happening with kids. Using technology is one thing, having it use us is another. We cannot adjust, the phones adjust us. They are hard wiring the brain, that is the concern.
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  #60  
Old 03-04-2019, 10:09 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis Webb View Post
You can do all this with a home computer or laptop. It does not mean we have to walk around with Smart Phones all day long glued to us. Which is what is happening with kids. Using technology is one thing, having it use us is another. We cannot adjust, the phones adjust us. They are hard wiring the brain, that is the concern.
Let's test that theory. Everyone with minor children at home, take their cellular phones away from them for a week.
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