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  #31  
Old 05-09-2021, 10:36 AM
s2y s2y is offline
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Originally Posted by Zexxor View Post
The worst thing about boutique buyers are the stuffed shirts who think they are a special breed.
Do we all wear the same shoes? I mean, they all just cover your feet. Running shoes? Do you think those make you faster than dress shoes? Prove it. Different sizes? Everyone should wear the same size and same kind of shoes as they did in the early 1900's.
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  #32  
Old 05-10-2021, 06:09 AM
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Boozehound Boozehound is offline
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I have owned a number of Martins, as well as a number of boutique builds. One of my Martins (the only one that wasn't a Custom Shop, actually) came from the factory borderline needing a neck reset, the rest have been perfectly crafted instruments. That said, I do have a few observations:

1. Boutique guitars tend to be more lightly built, and as such, sound great with light gauge strings. Authentic Martins are comparably built, and Golden Era Martins can get close. Standard series Martin Dreads really call for Medium strings (in my opinion)

2. My best sounding guitar (to me) for strumming/flatpicking is probably my Gruhn Custom D21 (build is very similar to a D28 Authentic 1941). It hangs with Collings, SCGC, and Froggy Bottom, although the Froggy is really just a different animal from the others.

3. My best sounding guitar for Fingerstyle is easily my SCGC 000, however I don't really have a lot of Fingerstyle-oriented builds

I believe that the Boutique builds are more consistent due to the time spent crafting each individual guitar coupled with the individual top voicing, however the Martins I have owned are phenomenal guitars that are exceptionally well built.
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  #33  
Old 05-10-2021, 09:43 AM
s2y s2y is offline
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Naysayer aside, we don't HAVE to justify why we bought a boutique or conventional Martin, but here are reasons I did.

1. With my shoe analogy, I needed something a little more tailored to my size. This meant a slimmer neck, which Martin may or may not offer on any given year. I also highly prefer a forearm bevel on big and/or deep acoustics. Martin doesn't currently offer this and I kinda doubt they will. It's true that Taylor offered most of what I wanted in the sadly discontinued 810e DLX and I liked them, but I wanted something a little more traditional sounding.

2. It's not like Martin is giving their guitars away. Decent price, but you're paying a certain percentage to get it from a dealer. You're also paying marketing, endorsement deals, etc. Remove all of those and most of the store brands would be a lot more affordable. None of those benefit me, so I don't particularly feel like paying money for that.

Last edited by s2y; 05-10-2021 at 04:22 PM.
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  #34  
Old 05-10-2021, 01:38 PM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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I played my D41 and my Bourgeois back to back last night with about an hour of playtime on each one, before switching. The best way to illustrate what I perceive of their differences is that while they both have tons of bass and a chimey upper-end, the Bourgeois is more "brilliant", for a lack of better terms. The D41 is super clean, but the Vintage D is piano-like in it's cleanliness. Both GREAT guitars, but just "better" overall with the Bourgeois. In relation to this thread theme, buying my D41 would be prideful and arrogant too when a Dread Jr. would do the same thing.....play music! Did I really just think that out loud!!LOL
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  #35  
Old 05-10-2021, 01:47 PM
Deputy289 Deputy289 is offline
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I went in to my local music shop (Morgan Music in Lebanon MO) to test my Bourgeois D with their 2020 Martin HD-28. I first did the G-chord strum test, followed by picking "Dust in the Wind" back to back.

Absolutely nothing against Martin guitars and those who play them. I've owned between 10-15 in my two decades of guitar playing. With that said, the Bourgeois was in an entirely different league. I left the store with my Bourgeois in hand feeling more confident than ever.
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  #36  
Old 05-10-2021, 01:55 PM
Scolaguitar Scolaguitar is offline
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I have a luthier built 000, Engleman top, EIR back and sides that cost several hundred less than what standard Martin 000-28 costs.

Sometimes you can get a lot more for your money which makes the "stuffed shirts" comment especially uncalled for.
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  #37  
Old 05-10-2021, 04:25 PM
s2y s2y is offline
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Originally Posted by Scolaguitar View Post
I have a luthier built 000, Engleman top, EIR back and sides that cost several hundred less than what standard Martin 000-28 costs.

Sometimes you can get a lot more for your money which makes the "stuffed shirts" comment especially uncalled for.
Agreed. I don't know what Martin would have charged for a Brazilian/Englemann in the OM-41 config, but it's probably twice what I paid.
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  #38  
Old 05-10-2021, 04:48 PM
jaymarsch jaymarsch is offline
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You are also paying for that particular luthier’s experience and expertise. Their unique exploration of what can be achieved in a handmade guitar as their hands and ears shape it. It is up to each player’s ears and hands to decide if it is worth the extra cost or not.
Best,
Jayne
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  #39  
Old 05-10-2021, 04:52 PM
ahorsewithnonam ahorsewithnonam is offline
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I remember perhaps 8 years ago I was in a special shop and played a boutique dread that made me weak in the knees. I mean, angels were singing out of the sound hole. I had to have it. Went home to get my HD28 as we agreed on a trade and money. I honestly didn’t care how much money it was costing me, it was that amazing.

Came back with my HD28 which I always thought sounded fantastic until I played the said guitar. Played the special guitar...OMG....I couldn’t believe I was going to own this magical instrument. Got out my HD28 to play a few chords and say goodbye.......what the heck.....it sounded on another level, so I started playing them both...back and forth. What the heck! They sounded the same. My buddy said....look at the old wood in this room...the acoustics are great in here. That’s why you thought it sounded so much better, had you had your guitar with you earlier today you wouldn’t have thought twice about switching. I came home with my guitar. Lesson learned.....bring your guitar. The boutique was exceptionally built for sure.
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  #40  
Old 05-10-2021, 05:48 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahorsewithnonam View Post
I remember perhaps 8 years ago I was in a special shop and played a boutique dread that made me weak in the knees. I mean, angels were singing out of the sound hole. I had to have it. Went home to get my HD28 as we agreed on a trade and money. I honestly didn’t care how much money it was costing me, it was that amazing.



Came back with my HD28 which I always thought sounded fantastic until I played the said guitar. Played the special guitar...OMG....I couldn’t believe I was going to own this magical instrument. Got out my HD28 to play a few chords and say goodbye.......what the heck.....it sounded on another level, so I started playing them both...back and forth. What the heck! They sounded the same. My buddy said....look at the old wood in this room...the acoustics are great in here. That’s why you thought it sounded so much better, had you had your guitar with you earlier today you wouldn’t have thought twice about switching. I came home with my guitar. Lesson learned.....bring your guitar. The boutique was exceptionally built for sure.
I have had this same experience before. Left with my own guitar. Sometimes the instruments around the room will begin to resonate while you're playing.
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  #41  
Old 05-10-2021, 07:08 PM
gmel555 gmel555 is offline
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I'm fortunate to have a couple Boutiques and a few mid-upper end mass produced. Both can make an outstanding sounding guitar and ones that will last for many years. Both can also make so-so sounding guitars. I do believe that boutique guitars are more consistently excellent, but I can't prove it. I see 3 areas where Boutiques "justify" for some the extra $$$:
1) Boutiques more consistently have great tone (however, one can get past this by finding one of those Martins, Taylors, Gibsons, Eastmans, etc. that also sound great.) I think the very best boutiques probably beat the very best mass produced for tone, BUT I CAN"T PROVE IT.
2) Boutiques IMHO absolutely have finer fit & finish.
3) Specific Boutique models are just more "rare" than a mass produced model. How many D-18's, D-28's, 814's, J-45's, etc. are out there compared to a given Boutique model?

For some of us, these aspects -and others- make the extra bread worth it.

Last edited by gmel555; 05-10-2021 at 07:19 PM.
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  #42  
Old 05-10-2021, 07:22 PM
Matts67 Matts67 is offline
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All this talk of boutique guitars having better fit and finish than Martin has me curious. I've seen my share of Martins that have left the factory with nut slots that are way too high, and necks that are underset. But relative to the masses, they are few and far between...I would say the product that Martin is producing these days is consistently excellent.

I've also seen my fair share of Bourgeois and Huss and Dalton guitars needing neck resets within a couple years, popping/creaking neck joints that have come loose, high frets, and Preston Thompson guitars with underset necks and subpar tonal quality, just as a couple examples. One mahogany Bourgeois guitar I owned also developed a random crack in the side, and they had no explanation for it because it didn't occur from an impact.

Just because you're buying a "boutique" instrument doesn't mean you're automatically getting an outstanding guitar that will have zero issues or is built to some fool-proof standard. The exception to this rule, is Collings. I've never encountered any other company that can produce something so precisely consistent as they can, and it is truly impressive.
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  #43  
Old 05-11-2021, 03:30 AM
Scotso Scotso is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts67 View Post
All this talk of boutique guitars having better fit and finish than Martin has me curious. I've seen my share of Martins that have left the factory with nut slots that are way too high, and necks that are underset. But relative to the masses, they are few and far between...I would say the product that Martin is producing these days is consistently excellent.

I've also seen my fair share of Bourgeois and Huss and Dalton guitars needing neck resets within a couple years, popping/creaking neck joints that have come loose, high frets, and Preston Thompson guitars with underset necks and subpar tonal quality, just as a couple examples. One mahogany Bourgeois guitar I owned also developed a random crack in the side, and they had no explanation for it because it didn't occur from an impact.

Just because you're buying a "boutique" instrument doesn't mean you're automatically getting an outstanding guitar that will have zero issues or is built to some fool-proof standard. The exception to this rule, is Collings. I've never encountered any other company that can produce something so precisely consistent as they can, and it is truly impressive.
My experience as well. I may be the only one that thinks this but....I think the use of CNC has made factory guitar consistency in construction improve markedly and with less waste, Human hands are not as consistent.

Last edited by Scotso; 05-11-2021 at 03:35 AM.
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  #44  
Old 05-11-2021, 03:58 AM
buddyhu buddyhu is offline
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Originally Posted by Matts67 View Post
The exception to this rule, is Collings. I've never encountered any other company that can produce something so precisely consistent as they can, and it is truly impressive.
I have been impressed with Collings’s consistency. Their customer service is also rather exceptional. If you like the tonal profiles that they offer (I do), they are a terrific choice, especially if you are shopping used instruments.
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  #45  
Old 05-11-2021, 10:42 AM
FPicker FPicker is offline
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About 20 years ago I took my precious Collings D2H to jam with a guy who had a Martin HD-28. I smugly supposed that mine would be the better guitar.

I was completely wrong. The HD-28 sounded better.

Assuming the feel is equal, above a certain price point I think it comes down to particular guitars.
You can make the same style instrument to the same specs with the same the woods, and when they come out they can wind up sounding a lot different. A mandolin manufacturer told me that.

I was in a shop once that had two identical Taylor guitars, same model, one next to the other. They sounded different.

The mass production guitars are made to a "formula", but it is one that often produces good sounding guitars. Even in eras where they had it "wrong", there are good sounding guitars. My sister's mid-70s Martin 000 sounds great.

But you do have to play them first. All of them, IMO.
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