The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 12-16-2019, 02:38 AM
Coler Coler is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 89
Default NGD 000-28 2018 Hurrah. Buzzing. Boo! Resolved. Hurrah!

I took delivery of a really good 000-28 last week. In short I love it. However it suffers from buzz at the headstock on open E, A and G. I am sure this is from the seemingly notorious loose washer problem that seems to regularly come up. I can actually hear the rattling when I gently shake the guitar (in a quiet room with my ear to the headstock) and I can feel it by tapping the tuners.

So otherwise it's great. I don't want to send it back not least because it seems any replacement might have the issue too, and as I say this is a great guitar in every other way.

I'm thinking of just getting replacement tuners and installing them myself at the next string change. Waverleys seem to be a good option for this.

I don't consider myself particularly handy but if the washer removal option is very easy I would probably give that a go first. Can anyone comment?

I'll also be taking it for a set-up in the new year - maybe I should just ask my tech to remove the washers?

Just a small vent - my amazing D17m (2012 from memory and that guitar is sweet as a nut) came with lovely Grover open back tuners. Seems pretty weird that the more expensive 28 comes with these bloody things.

Last edited by Coler; 01-29-2020 at 10:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-16-2019, 02:49 AM
Cool555 Cool555 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 954
Default NGD 000-28 2018 Hurrah. Buzzing. Boo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coler View Post
I don't consider myself particularly handy but if the washer removal option is very easy I would probably give that a go first. Can anyone comment?

I'll also be taking it for a set-up in the new year - maybe I should just ask my tech to remove the washers?

Congrats on your new 000-28!

My vote is to let your guitar technician change the turners when you’re doing the setup. Unless you’re confident of doing it on your own.
__________________
Just enjoy playing your guitar or guitars!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-16-2019, 03:42 AM
JayBee1404's Avatar
JayBee1404 JayBee1404 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,240
Default

First - check if the adjuster on the truss-rod is snugged-up. A loose truss-rod nut can allow a rattle to develop.

If that’s all in order, do the tuners have washers under the hexagon-shaped tuner-bushings? If so, those are the next suspect. They serve no practical purpose, and they can be easily removed by removing the string from the tuner, remove the tuner from the back of the headstock (two small screws), and push the bushing out from the back of the headstock using a pencil or a piece of dowel. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ‘UNSCREW’ THE BUSHING USING A WRENCH! The bushing is press-fit, not threaded, and if you try to ‘unscrew’ it, you’ll risk inadvertently enlarging the hole.

Remove the washers, press the bushing back into the hole (thumb-pressure should be sufficient), replace the tuner, re-string, and Robert’s your mother’s brother!

There’s no reason to replace the tuners if they work correctly and if removing the washers cures the buzzing.

If the tuners don’t have washers under the bushing, obviously that’s not the problem, and you may need to take the guitar to a good tech/luthier for further investigations.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.
__________________
Brook ‘Lamorna’ OM (European Spruce/EIR) (2019)
Lowden F-23 (Red Cedar/Walnut) (2017)
Martin D-18 (2012)
Martin HD-28V (2010)

Last edited by JayBee1404; 12-16-2019 at 06:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-16-2019, 04:56 AM
Coler Coler is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 89
Default

@cool & Jaybee thanks for your quick responses and advice which were very helpful.

I will see if the truss rod can be excluded based on your great post Jaybee. If the focus is still on the tuners I think I will discuss with my guy in the New Year and see about removing the washers.

I never mind the idea of upgrading for value added but it surely doesn't sit well with me where the stock as provided should be adequate.

Last edited by Coler; 12-16-2019 at 05:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-16-2019, 06:31 AM
JayBee1404's Avatar
JayBee1404 JayBee1404 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coler View Post
I never mind the idea of upgrading for value added but it surely doesn't sit well with me where the stock as provided should be adequate.
I confess that I replaced the Martin-branded Gotoh open-backed tuners with Waverleys on my two current Martins and the OM-28 Marquis that I recently moved along, but that was for no other reason than that I **like** the aesthetic of Waverlys - the ‘Martin’ Gotohs worked well and, after I removed the washers, they didn’t buzz.

So my point was that it shouldn’t be necessary to replace the tuners, removing the washers should cure the buzz. But if, like me, you get a kick from the look/feel of Waves, and don’t mind splashing the cash, I say Go For It!

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.
__________________
Brook ‘Lamorna’ OM (European Spruce/EIR) (2019)
Lowden F-23 (Red Cedar/Walnut) (2017)
Martin D-18 (2012)
Martin HD-28V (2010)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-16-2019, 08:58 AM
canyongargon canyongargon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 98
Default

If your guitar is a 2018, the tuners on it should have press-fit bushings even though they’re hexagonal like nuts - do not try and tighten them, you won’t get anywhere. Are they the open back Grovers or Schallers, or are they the closed back large Grover type tuners?

Buzzes can be hard to identify. I’d take it to a good tech.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-16-2019, 11:35 AM
UncleJesse's Avatar
UncleJesse UncleJesse is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: STL
Posts: 854
Default

If they're the schallers take your finger and tap the S on the back of the open gear tuners. If you hear it click when you tap it you have the same problem I've had with two sets now.

No amount of tightening will fix this. It will require replacement.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-16-2019, 11:45 AM
Coler Coler is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 89
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJesse View Post
If they're the schallers take your finger and tap the S on the back of the open gear tuners. If you hear it click when you tap it you have the same problem I've had with two sets now.

No amount of tightening will fix this. It will require replacement.
That's it exactly. The loose click on tapping the S.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-16-2019, 12:18 PM
JayBee1404's Avatar
JayBee1404 JayBee1404 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJesse View Post
If they're the schallers take your finger and tap the S on the back of the open gear tuners. If you hear it click when you tap it you have the same problem I've had with two sets now.

No amount of tightening will fix this. It will require replacement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coler View Post
That's it exactly. The loose click on tapping the S.
Very interesting!

I have no experience of those Schallers, they are a recent thing with Standard Range Martins I believe? My experience has been with the Martin-branded Gotoh open-backs that were fitted to Vintage- and Marquis range guitars in past years, and the early D-18s from 2012 onwards.
__________________
Brook ‘Lamorna’ OM (European Spruce/EIR) (2019)
Lowden F-23 (Red Cedar/Walnut) (2017)
Martin D-18 (2012)
Martin HD-28V (2010)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-16-2019, 12:51 PM
jseth jseth is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oregon... "Heart of the Valley"...
Posts: 8,960
Default

A curious aspect of this... for nearly 40 years, I had Schaller tuning machines on my Angus F-40... and they worked just fine; maybe not the highest ratio, but still, no problems.

When I had the neck reset on that guitar, I decided to "upgrade" the tuners to black Schallers, thinking the change would be cool for that old friend of mine.

And the brand new Schallers were just horrible! Of course, by then I had sold the old nickel tuners... the new ones (this was about 3 years ago) had a ton of slop and play in the machines; no sort of adjusting would correct the problem.

Ended up returning them to Stew-Mac and getting a set of Ratio tuners from my local store. Ratio machines are a Canadian product and they are designed so that each 180 degree turn on ANY tuner will change the pitch one-half step... each machine is numbered, 1 through 6, so the high E string and the low E string are each the same when it comes to adjusting pitch...

I really like these tuners a lot! If I played in alternate tunings more, I'd like them even more; two complete turns gets the low E to D, every time. It ain't perfect, but really close... makes down tuning a breeze!
__________________
"You're quoting figures and dropping names,
you're telling stories and playing games.
You're over-laughing when things ain't funny;
you're acting like you don't need money.
If talk was criminal, you'd lead a life of crime;
because your mind is on vacation
and your mouth is working overtime..."

"Your Mind is on Vacation" (Mose Allison)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-16-2019, 03:50 PM
UncleJesse's Avatar
UncleJesse UncleJesse is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: STL
Posts: 854
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coler View Post
That's it exactly. The loose click on tapping the S.
Same issue I see. There are no washers on these tuners. That hex on the peghead is just a design element on the bushing. I am planning on calling Martin this week. If you do call let us know what happens.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-16-2019, 03:54 PM
Coler Coler is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 89
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJesse View Post
Same issue I see. There are no washers on these tuners. That hex on the peghead is just a design element on the bushing. I am planning on calling Martin this week. If you do call let us know what happens.
I emailed them tonight asking for advice.

Will update.

The dealer I bought from offered to take it back but I really don't want to do that. These are not that easy to come by over here and I love the guitar.

I'm getting a bit cross now. I restrung it yesterday (Retro .12s, still sounds great but not perfect for it - these do sound better after being played on fir quite a bit though so I'll give it a few days). I played it today - lovely in every respect but the buzzing can not be ignored.

Yep I'm officially annoyed. I should not be having to deal with this.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-16-2019, 05:07 PM
JayBee1404's Avatar
JayBee1404 JayBee1404 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coler View Post
These are not that easy to come by over here and I love the guitar...

...Yep I'm officially annoyed. I should not be having to deal with this.
Where is ‘over here’? Presumably you’re not in the US?
__________________
Brook ‘Lamorna’ OM (European Spruce/EIR) (2019)
Lowden F-23 (Red Cedar/Walnut) (2017)
Martin D-18 (2012)
Martin HD-28V (2010)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-16-2019, 05:24 PM
Coler Coler is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 89
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee1404 View Post
Where is ‘over here’? Presumably you’re not in the US?
Oh sorry, I'm in Ireland. I ordered this in online. It sounds so good and plays so nicely otherwise I'm reluctant to send it back. I havnt seen the 2018 000 28 in a shop here.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-16-2019, 06:25 PM
canyongargon canyongargon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 98
Default

I suspect if you ask nicely, Martin would be willing to mail you a new tuner given the circumstances. At very least they’d send a new one out to an authorized repair center. If you like the guitar there’s absolutely no reason to return over a faulty tuner. Easy fix.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=