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Old 11-26-2019, 10:11 AM
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Default Shore SM7b mic question - sound link added

Do you have experience with a Shore SM7 or other dynamic mic for recording vocals?

I have both a Neumann M149 and an AKG 414. They sound fantastic on acoustic guitar and other stringed instruments, both in a mono application and stereo track.

However I find my vocals to be a bit strident. I’m not a screamer and my voice tends to have a pronounced mid range and treble that I find harsh when I use the 2 mics I have. So perhaps a good condenser mic is not they way to go for my voice. I have have been favorably described as a mix between Steven stills and Paul Simon.

I know the only way to really know is to try one out. But what say you experience recording folks. Do you prefer a Dynamic mic on certain voices, and if yes what type of voices, and what dynamic mics......I figure if an SM7 is good enough for M Jackson .....

FYI: mic pre is a Great river MP-2NV and my converter is an Apogee Rosetta 200

Link added in post #6
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Last edited by Mbroady; 11-26-2019 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 11-26-2019, 10:32 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is online now
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There's no way to make a good mic recommendation without actually hearing you sing.
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Old 11-26-2019, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
There's no way to make a good mic recommendation without actually hearing you sing.
I will get something up on sound cloud later today and post it here.
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Old 11-26-2019, 11:43 AM
keith.rogers keith.rogers is offline
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Short answer is that you pretty much have to try a mic to know.

Some voices suit some mics better than others. I honestly think the SM58 is a great mic, and I prefer it over the newer Beta series and similar, hotter super/hyper-cardioid mics out there (from other mfrs.) for many of the amateur folks I've heard and recorded.

The SM7b is, of course, a great mic at over 3x the price, and if you've got a hankering for a dynamic, it's hard to go wrong there - I just always had other places to spend money . (Plus, I've got 5 dynamics already that get not a lot of use.)

With all that, I still grab a condenser for my rusty voice, but it's more baritone than it sounds yours is.

If you want warm & smooth, that often suggests a tube mic, or maybe a ribbon. A couple whole 'nother cans o' worms.
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Old 11-26-2019, 12:43 PM
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I have an SM7b and I like how it sounds on my voice for some things. It's a good mic!

Last edited by BoneDigger; 11-27-2019 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 11-26-2019, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
There's no way to make a good mic recommendation without actually hearing you sing.
Here's a quick demo of my voice for you. its just guitar, drums, and voice. Vocals recorded on an M149, cardiod setting about 6 inches away No EQ or reverb, just a bit of overall compresion.

https://soundcloud.com/user552560817/m-149-test/s-pNhpb

Can you make a mic sugestion from a basic recording? Love to hear your thoughts
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Last edited by Mbroady; 11-26-2019 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 11-26-2019, 02:50 PM
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I think for your voice the first thing I'd try is something with a 47ish flavor. The two mics I own in that category are the Flea 47 and the Lauten Atlantis. The Flea goes for about $4k new and usually in the low $3k region uses. The Lauten is usually $1500 new and I've seen them as low as $800 used in good condition. The Lauten has three mode settings: gentle, neutral, and forward. I think the neutral setting would work well for you. Both of these are excellent microphones.

I've heard the Peluso 22 47 LE and I think that's a pretty good 47 clone. Not quite as full and rich as the Flea but certainly a good choice.

I did spend a little time with an Advanced Audio CM48T which is supposed to be a 47ish mic. It's a nice sounding mic but it didn't sound anything like a 47 to me and I don't think it's the mic you're looking for.

I'm curious to see what opinions others offer. And keep in mind none of us can truly know what will sound best to you. All we can do is say what we think would sound best to us on your voice.

Something that might be a worthwhile endeavor is to rent time at a studio that has an extensive mic locker and record yourself on a bunch of microphones to try to narrow down what appeals to you.

There's a great site called the Audio Test Kitchen which allows you to hear a very large number of microphones in action on the same source. You might find it helpful. The site is a little tricky to navigate but they have a YouTube video to help you learn to get around.
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Old 11-26-2019, 04:51 PM
keith.rogers keith.rogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbroady View Post
Here's a quick demo of my voice for you. its just guitar, drums, and voice. Vocals recorded on an M149, cardiod setting about 6 inches away No EQ or reverb, just a bit of overall compresion.

https://soundcloud.com/user552560817/m-149-test/s-pNhpb

Can you make a mic sugestion from a basic recording? Love to hear your thoughts
I guess I'm wondering what you are trying to do here. That's a pretty good vocal track, and certainly a good mic. To me, it sounds like a lot of it is being stomped on by the other tracks in the lower range, i.e., where the warmth would come through.

It's not particularly harsh, but maybe you're pushing the presence to overcome not carving enough space for it in the mix? And, you can always try to work the mic a bit closer for some proximity effect. And make sure you've got as clean a signal as possible by keeping those gains dialed back (vs. pushing the next stage).

Of course, it's nice to find a mic that means zero tinkering after the track is recorded, so if that's your goal, you might look at a good tube mic, IMO. I had access to one of those older RØDE models for a while, and it was nice on my friend's tenor voice, but for me, it was a wash against my Miktek.

P.S. (Edit) The U47 is the tube gold standard, except they used tubes that no longer exist. Some of the clones are supposed to be very good - just out of my home recording budget!
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Old 11-26-2019, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbroady View Post
Here's a quick demo of my voice for you. its just guitar, drums, and voice. Vocals recorded on an M149, cardiod setting about 6 inches away No EQ or reverb, just a bit of overall compresion.

https://soundcloud.com/user552560817/m-149-test/s-pNhpb

Can you make a mic sugestion from a basic recording? Love to hear your thoughts
On my earbuds through my Macbook Air, Honestly I don't find your vocal on the 149 strident, actually I find pretty darn good, very present and modern sounding (which IMO is a good thing) And remember it is pretty typical to no like our voice recorded

So I would not give up on the 149 just yet . The only thing I thought was a bit strident and the level too high is the percussive whack.

So my suggestion would be first try some subtractive EQ on the vocal. And as keith suggested you might want also do some subtractive EQ on all the tracs to clean up lows and mids.

If the DAW your using has a multi band EQ with adjustable freq range and adjustable Q narrow the Q virtually all the way, then boost the gain up pretty high and sweep back and forth, try starting a sweep at 100- 150 then 250 - 300 then try 400 - 600 try to listen for hollow (singing in culvert type sound ) usually found in multiples starting at about 250 and 500 when you find them hollow then do a narrow Q cut on it maybe about 5 db.

Then check again around 2000 and 4000 and see if you hear a "ringing" sound
then cut there also

Next I would also suggest either some modest Reverb and or Modest Delay make sure you set either one up in parallel on it's own track and send the vocal to the verb/delay track.
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Old 11-26-2019, 09:27 PM
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Sounds pretty good to me.

Are there any recording studios in your area with a good selection of condenser and dynamic mics? That might be a $100 or so well spent.
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Old 11-26-2019, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith.rogers View Post
To me, it sounds like a lot of it is being stomped on by the other tracks in the lower range, i.e., where the warmth would come through.............


P.S. (Edit) The U47 is the tube gold standard, except they used tubes that no longer exist. Some of the clones are supposed to be very good - just out of my home recording budget!

Thanks Keith. Your comment about making room for the lower end warmth is food for thought. I have always approached the vocals as being more in the mid to upper range and the guitar as being in the lower mid area. Maybe switching them around will help eliminate some of the offending vocal frequencies. At least it’s a good experiment for this novice.

In regards to 47 clone, would love to add one to my mic locker , but like you they are a little out of my budget for now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
..............And remember it is pretty typical to no like our voice recorded

So I would not give up on the 149 just yet . The only thing I thought was a bit strident and the level too high is the percussive whack.

So my suggestion would be first try some subtractive EQ on the vocal. And as keith suggested you might want also do some subtractive EQ on all the tracs to clean up lows and mids.

If the DAW your using has a multi band EQ with adjustable freq range and adjustable Q narrow the Q virtually all the way, then boost the gain up pretty high and sweep back and forth, try starting a sweep at 100- 150 then 250 - 300 then try 400 - 600 try to listen for hollow (singing in culvert type sound ) usually found in multiples starting at about 250 and 500 when you find them hollow then do a narrow Q cut on it maybe about 5 db.

Then check again around 2000 and 4000 and see if you hear a "ringing" sound
then cut there also

Next I would also suggest either some modest Reverb and or Modest Delay make sure you set either one up in parallel on it's own track and send the vocal to the verb/delay track.
Ha, appreciate and can relate to the Not liking ones own voice comment.
It’s so true, though I am beginning to accept it a little more every day. Hence why I’m contemplating if a different mic assist. but I’m not getting rid of the M149...

I will experiment with some subtractive EQ in the frequency ranges you mentioned. I have Sonar Platinum and it does have some powerful EQ plug-ins, ones were I can do a narrow sweep and find the offending frequencies. It’s time I dive head first into the mixing part of the process which includes learning more about EQ and setting up busses for effects...so much to learn.
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Last edited by Mbroady; 11-26-2019 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 11-26-2019, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
I think for your voice the first thing I'd try is something with a 47ish flavor. The two mics I own in that category are the Flea 47 and the Lauten Atlantis. The Flea goes for about $4k new and usually in the low $3k region uses. The Lauten is usually $1500 new and I've seen them as low as $800 used in good condition. The Lauten has three mode settings: gentle, neutral, and forward. I think the neutral setting would work well for you. Both of these are excellent microphones.

I've heard the Peluso 22 47 LE and I think that's a pretty good 47 clone. Not quite as full and rich as the Flea but certainly a good choice.

I did spend a little time with an Advanced Audio CM48T which is supposed to be a 47ish mic. It's a nice sounding mic but it didn't sound anything like a 47 to me and I don't think it's the mic you're looking for.

I'm curious to see what opinions others offer. And keep in mind none of us can truly know what will sound best to you. All we can do is say what we think would sound best to us on your voice.

Something that might be a worthwhile endeavor is to rent time at a studio that has an extensive mic locker and record yourself on a bunch of microphones to try to narrow down what appeals to you.

There's a great site called the Audio Test Kitchen which allows you to hear a very large number of microphones in action on the same source. You might find it helpful. The site is a little tricky to navigate but they have a YouTube video to help you learn to get around.

Thanks Jim
Though it will be a while before I can add another high end mic to the locker I Would love to have a 47 clone. The flea would be a nice choice but I little out of my budget. The Lauten is listed for $1199. That’s a little more financial viable and the reviews are positive. Any other options in that price range

Thanks for the links to the mic shootouts.
I will definitely check that out. I also like the studio idea, especially if I can find one with the same mic pre that I have.
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Old 11-26-2019, 09:59 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is online now
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Another idea may be to invest in mic modeling software. That would give you an opportunity to get a flavor for a lot of different mics and may point you in a good direction.
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Old 11-27-2019, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
Another idea may be to invest in mic modeling software. That would give you an opportunity to get a flavor for a lot of different mics and may point you in a good direction.
Truth be told I am skeptical of mic modeling software, though I do not have any experience with modern modeling software.
Can changing EQ curves make a SM57 sound like a U47.
If it gets you half way there then call me impressed.

Then again I do not have much experience with a U47 other then YouTube vid shootouts. And the sound quality of the online vids probably does not do the mics justice. So I would not know if I hit the mark other then if it sounded more to my liking.
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Old 11-27-2019, 08:47 AM
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At the risk of being simple, the SM7 would work well for you. Mine seems to be “smoother” than many mics I have used.
Good hunting
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