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  #1  
Old 02-18-2010, 07:51 PM
OC1 OC1 is offline
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Default Help building cutaway

I already made two guitars but thinking about cutaway. I never done that.
What are the challenges (apart of bending)? What should be done differently in the process. This would be a classical,. but with a dovetail neck, not spanish heel.
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  #2  
Old 02-18-2010, 10:42 PM
WhistlingFish WhistlingFish is offline
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You don't state whether you intend building a pointy (Florentine) or rounded (Venetian) cutaway. Each style has it's own unique challenges, but whichever you choose, I suggest you to give a lot of thought to the design of your headblock.

Having a firm idea of the neck width and taper where it joins the body will determine how well your cutaway transitions into the line of the fretboard edge. Ask yourself whether you want the sides to be flush with the fretboard edge there, or if you want the fretboard to sit inboard of the cutaway edge. The angles and dimensions of the headblock and the placement of the dovetail pocket need to be carefully considered to take these factors into account. Side thickness should be factored into the design too.
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:22 PM
arie arie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhistlingFish View Post
You don't state whether you intend building a pointy (Florentine) or rounded (Venetian) cutaway. Each style has it's own unique challenges, but whichever you choose, I suggest you to give a lot of thought to the design of your headblock.

Having a firm idea of the neck width and taper where it joins the body will determine how well your cutaway transitions into the line of the fretboard edge. Ask yourself whether you want the sides to be flush with the fretboard edge there, or if you want the fretboard to sit inboard of the cutaway edge. The angles and dimensions of the headblock and the placement of the dovetail pocket need to be carefully considered to take these factors into account. Side thickness should be factored into the design too.

what he said

hey: nice software!
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Old 02-19-2010, 03:18 PM
martinedwards martinedwards is offline
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my first cutaway was a pointy one, made out of desperation because I broke the side bending the curve just under the neck.

so I flipped it over, cut it straight at the ends & continued!!

your neck block needs to be carefully thought out and watch the heel too.

I prefer a heel that doesn't taper away from the cutaway, rather it goes straight onto the cutaway.

just looks and feels nicer to me.

BTW you can see behind the heel cap where I went in too deep with the router and had to patch it.....

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Old 02-20-2010, 08:31 AM
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I am going for round style, venetian. All guitars in the store have fingerboard flushed with the cutaway, some have straight heel flushed with the edge, some have taper. I see some challenge in having the fingerboard properly flush with the edge and I see how it needs to be carefully count on during whole process. Oh and Sergei deJonge builds cutaways where the heel is tapered, yet the side still flush all the way.
Her is image:


Anyway, I am of course not going to attempt that, but a flushed fingerboard with side would be probably a good idea. I think I will need to go tapered with heel as the heel block is already tapered, uh.

What is the kerfing in the cutaway part, do you put a solid piece there?
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My Guitars:
-Lucida $60 new with soundport arguably now plays like $85 one
-LaPatrie Presentation, factory rejected
-Takamine AN10
- My own build DeJonge Standard Steel String
- My own build Santos Hernandez cypress flamengo
- My own build Bubinga Tornavoz classical
- My own build Hammered Dulcimer
- My own build Travel Guitar

Last edited by OC1; 02-20-2010 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:45 PM
martinedwards martinedwards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC1 View Post
Sergei deJonge builds cutaways where the heel is tapered, yet the side still flush all the way.
show off!!


Quote:
What is the kerfing in the cutaway part, do you put a solid piece there?
maybe in a cutaway mandolin where the curver is REALLY tight, but usually just regular kerfed linings.

here's what I'm working on at the minute.....

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Old 02-20-2010, 02:35 PM
Brackett Instruments Brackett Instruments is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC1 View Post
.................................................. ........................
What is the kerfing in the cutaway part, do you put a solid piece there?
"Regular" kerfing will work on a venetian cutaway, but you may need to open up the kerfs a little. If it breaks just fit the breaks together to look like kerfs.


I'll post a picture of the finished guitar in a couple weeks. The heel is straight, and will be flush with the side. Careful planning is necessary for everything to work out. I start with the fingerboard (even on non cutaways) and go from there.

Added: Kevin Ryan has some kerfing that's super flexible. I make my own kerfing to help keep cost down.
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Old 02-20-2010, 06:20 PM
WhistlingFish WhistlingFish is offline
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For cosmetic reasons, I aim for one continuous length of kerfed lining, particularly where it's visible through the soundhole. If it does break, I reserve it for the top linings where it won't be seen. With the help of a light mist of water and your bending pipe, you can help them conform to the tightest of curves. I use this method even on non-cutaway guitars to reduce breakage and to guarantee smooth curves. You'll also find that gluing them is a lot easier when they conform exactly with little pressure.

As Woody says, you may have to file the kerfs into "V" shapes where the bends are tightest.

Good luck, and don't forget to post photos!
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:53 PM
OC1 OC1 is offline
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Thanks for good info and nice pictures. On the other hand I was today in store and saw all Taylors cutaways were about 1-2 millimeters proud off the fingerboard - so I guess the aim is for flush or in worst case little bigger and then call it Taylor copy...

Sergeis cutaway is insane for sure, the reason for it is that Sergei loves the shoe-like tapered heel but don't like how normal cutaway breaks the look of the heel so he worked out to have sides bend and flow into the heel.

In the store they had also Almansa flamenco thin cutaway (big voice btw, but only 65mm thick!)
They did the heel-side flow such way that I actually really like - they cut the cutaway side short and let the neck heel flow into it - this require a spanish heel neck, not bolt on.
Looks nice, the whole thin body flamenco looks great BTW, but look at the neck and cutaway here:



I want to make one of my guitar as thin body.
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My Guitars:
-Lucida $60 new with soundport arguably now plays like $85 one
-LaPatrie Presentation, factory rejected
-Takamine AN10
- My own build DeJonge Standard Steel String
- My own build Santos Hernandez cypress flamengo
- My own build Bubinga Tornavoz classical
- My own build Hammered Dulcimer
- My own build Travel Guitar
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  #10  
Old 02-21-2010, 12:56 AM
dekutree64 dekutree64 is offline
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My Cordoba is a thin body flamenco shaped very much like that one (wonderfully rich and loud sound indeed, you should definitely make one). I love the feel of that smooth, wavy cutaway transition. I suppose it would be possible to do on a steel string, by leaving part of the head block exposed, and carving the transition after getting the neck attached in its final place. There would be some kind of a seam though, and the effect would be ruined if/when the neck ever needs reset.

So yeah, for steel string, I'd probably just go with the cutaway edge perfectly vertical, where it joins right at the edge of the fingerboard. I always thought the Taylor 1-2mm sticking out looked tacky, but trying to bend the side to follow the heel curve looks like more trouble than it's worth.

I like martinedwards' style too though, keeping the heel edges straight so it's a naturally smooth transition, with no crazy side bending. I don't like that big squarish heel, but that could be rounded off without affecting the transition.
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  #11  
Old 02-22-2010, 09:49 AM
OC1 OC1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dekutree64 View Post
My Cordoba is a thin body flamenco shaped very much like that one (wonderfully rich and loud sound indeed, you should definitely make one).
Aren't those wonderful little guitars? Any time I see that thin body flamenco I want to badly buy one, then I have to remind myself that I already made a flamenco by myself that sounds pretty good (but not thin body) so it would simply be unfair to myself :-)
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My Guitars:
-Lucida $60 new with soundport arguably now plays like $85 one
-LaPatrie Presentation, factory rejected
-Takamine AN10
- My own build DeJonge Standard Steel String
- My own build Santos Hernandez cypress flamengo
- My own build Bubinga Tornavoz classical
- My own build Hammered Dulcimer
- My own build Travel Guitar
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2010, 06:14 PM
Zigeuner Zigeuner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinedwards View Post
my first cutaway was a pointy one, made out of desperation because I broke the side bending the curve just under the neck.

so I flipped it over, cut it straight at the ends & continued!!

your neck block needs to be carefully thought out and watch the heel too.

I prefer a heel that doesn't taper away from the cutaway, rather it goes straight onto the cutaway.

just looks and feels nicer to me.

BTW you can see behind the heel cap where I went in too deep with the router and had to patch it.....

That's some beatiful work and wood as well! If you hadn't mentioned the router issue, I would have thought it was a detail.

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  #13  
Old 03-01-2010, 02:35 PM
martinedwards martinedwards is offline
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if in doubt, a mess up becomes a "feature"!!

as to being beautiful wood, ALL the wood in that pic (except the fretboard) came from a dumpster......
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2010, 08:37 PM
Zigeuner Zigeuner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinedwards View Post
if in doubt, a mess up becomes a "feature"!!

as to being beautiful wood, ALL the wood in that pic (except the fretboard) came from a dumpster......
You live in an excellent neighborhood then.
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  #15  
Old 03-02-2010, 08:06 AM
martinedwards martinedwards is offline
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well, there's a interior fitout company near me that only tenders for jobs over the 2 million mark. you wouldn't BELIEVE what they throw!!

I'm hoping to have another rummage through their cast offs in the next week or so.......
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