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  #16  
Old 12-30-2019, 02:18 PM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is online now
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I agree, fazool - but the reason we pay others to do the heavy lifting is to have time to do other things. The only reason I set out to do things myself is because I've been conned too many times. I particularly distrust plumbers and general contractors so I've been motivated to learn to DIY many home improvement type stuff. I've even tried building guitars, but TBH I prefer my "factory" guitars a little more.

I'm resting on my laurels after recently completing a small bathroom remodel:

BEFORE:


AFTER:


TBH we hired somebody to replace the tub and surround though. I did everything else. It took about 6 months - and believe me, I heard about it from my wife and younger son. My older son is the reason all the stuff in our house has needed fixing. I owe all I know about plumbing to him.
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  #17  
Old 12-30-2019, 03:17 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Of course that's true, but there are also those who growing up were taught a sort of helplessness and were never exposed to the notion of fixing something - it was always call the guy to fix this or that. So fixing something was always some black box mystery as opposed to taking the time to figure out how something worked and then why it wasn't working...
This ^^^^

Anybody with average intelligence and dexterity can LEARN to do this kind of thing IF the person is motivated to do so. I learned about plumbing, for example when I had my house that was built in the early 1920s. I would remove the offending part, bring to a local shop (now closed, unfortunately) and ask them what to do with it. They would provide the part and explain what I had to do. I would then go home and do it. I did similar with my car back then (when we still had carburetors).

When my wife and I decided that our condo was for us, rather than for entertaining, we turned the dining room into her sewing room. We got a bid for floor-to-ceiling cabinets with drawers and doors from a company that did that kind of work. This was in the early 1990s. They wanted somewhere between $11,000 and $14,000 to do it. I did it myself over a week of evenings for around $600.

Even in our condo, I most often do my own repairs. Each homeowner in the building is responsible for the inside of their unit, while the association as a whole is responsible for the public areas.

I could never afford to hire somebody to do this kind of work, so I learned to do it myself. I still maintain that nobody is truly "mechanically challenged" or whatever the "correct" term is these days, that they can't figure it out for themselves. Overhauling an engine is one thing, but changing oil and brake pads and routine maintenance is another, and is very possible for anybody who cares to learn. The same holds true for basic home repairs and that sort of thing. If a person is independently wealthy and can afford to hire this stuff out, that is one thing. But for those of us with normal middle or lower class incomes, I can't imagine being able to afford that.

To me, the same holds true for learning a musical instrument (since this is a guitar forum). There are very, very few people who are really tone deaf. If a person can tell the difference between the melodies for "Happy Birthday" and "Jingle Bells", he or she is not tone deaf. Anyone with average intelligence and dexterity can learn to play an instrument. The key is whether or not the person has the DESIRE to do so.

Nothing wrong with not wanting to do these things, but saying one doesn't have the potential is really selling that person way short of what a normal human being is capable of. In short, we are far more capable than we give ourselves credit for. That should be taken as a compliment to all of us, and possibly incentive for at least some, to give it a try.

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  #18  
Old 12-30-2019, 03:24 PM
Ozzy the dog Ozzy the dog is offline
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I don't expect everyone to be gifted at doing their own work or even mechanically inclined.
I've often heard it said that everyone is good at something and to that end you should feel good to shout about your thing when you find it. But for some reason we don't always feel comfortable doing this.

From past posts it is obvious you (fazool) are very talented and creative with your hands and you certainly should feel free to shout out loud and proud.

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And I'm not judging how other people value time and their own lives - that's a very personal thing.
If ever I need something my first thought is to make it myself even if there may be a cheap 'off the shelf' product available. This isn't because I don't want to part with my cash but simply because I enjoy making things and if there is something I need then I can justify spending the time, and money on materials to do it.

Obviously, the idea of DIY or making something to some people is nothing short of a nightmare. My nightmare would be running a marathon but some love it.

I don't see spending time making something any different to time spent playing a guitar and paying someone else to do a job I can do myself would be like paying someone to play guitar for me.
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  #19  
Old 12-30-2019, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Neil K Walk View Post
I agree, fazool - but the reason we pay others to do the heavy lifting is to have time to do other things. The only reason I set out to do things myself is because I've been conned too many times. I particularly distrust plumbers and general contractors so I've been motivated to learn to DIY many home improvement type stuff. I've even tried building guitars, but TBH I prefer my "factory" guitars a little more.

I'm resting on my laurels after recently completing a small bathroom remodel:

BEFORE:


AFTER:


TBH we hired somebody to replace the tub and surround though. I did everything else. It took about 6 months - and believe me, I heard about it from my wife and younger son. My older son is the reason all the stuff in our house has needed fixing. I owe all I know about plumbing to him.
Great work. What a vast improvement!!!
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  #20  
Old 12-30-2019, 07:16 PM
spock spock is offline
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If we are going to wax philosophically:

I believe some folks have innate talents that when nurtured and honed allow for tremendous works. Those works may involve the arts, mechanical, engineering and/or architectural creations, athletic prowess, etc.

Granted anyone is capable of becoming a better guitarist, painter, runner, mechanic, carpenter, etc. by applying ample amounts of practice and determination, but in the end, some are simply more graciously genetically endowed with certain skills than others.

For instance, I am of the belief that I could have practiced classical guitar beginning at age 5 and continuing 8 hours per day for 30 years and still not have been as proficient as the great Segovia. To be sure, I would have been very very good, but folks like Segovia and Frank Lloyd Wright and Usain Bolt and the like have that something special that truly separates them from the crowd.

In short, we all have certain talents and lack others, and to suggest, for example, that anyone could take apart a transmission and rebuild it, while fundamentally true, overlooks the fact that there are some to which such an endeavor just "makes sense" and "clicks" while others may require having it spoon fed to them in a training module that would span weeks if not months with still no clear understanding of what was taking place in the grand scheme of things other than successfully following directions to an end result.

My brother, for instance, is "mechanically inclined", and can intuitively fix, take apart and reconstitute, figure out and pretty much do any such thing right the first time without ever having had prior instruction of any kind. Musically and artistically, however, he is the first to tell you he could not play a radio let alone learn a musical instrument and is lucky to make stick figures when it comes to drawing. Could he eventually learn to do such things, absolutely, but his mind is geared towards the mechanical/industrial side of things rather than the artistic. Not a knock in any way, just reality and a blessing depending upon how one looks at their own particular gifts.

I, on the other hand. struggle with mechanical and artistic things but love taking such challenges on in part because I derive so much satisfaction when I accomplish anything in these areas. When things don't come easy, small successes bring great joy.

So, I would have messed with the stool as well, seeing it as a challenge to figure it out and somehow make it work with my limited carpentry skills, but I certainly understand those who would rather choose to spend their precious free time engaged in areas in which they feel more comfortable, competent, and enlightened.
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  #21  
Old 12-30-2019, 08:48 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Originally Posted by spock View Post
If we are going to wax philosophically:

I believe some folks have innate talents that when nurtured and honed allow for tremendous works. Those works may involve the arts, mechanical, engineering and/or architectural creations, athletic prowess, etc.

Granted anyone is capable of becoming a better guitarist, painter, runner, mechanic, carpenter, etc. by applying ample amounts of practice and determination, but in the end, some are simply more graciously genetically endowed with certain skills than others.

For instance, I am of the belief that I could have practiced classical guitar beginning at age 5 and continuing 8 hours per day for 30 years and still not have been as proficient as the great Segovia. To be sure, I would have been very very good, but folks like Segovia and Frank Lloyd Wright and Usain Bolt and the like have that something special that truly separates them from the crowd.

In short, we all have certain talents and lack others, and to suggest, for example, that anyone could take apart a transmission and rebuild it, while fundamentally true, overlooks the fact that there are some to which such an endeavor just "makes sense" and "clicks" while others may require having it spoon fed to them in a training module that would span weeks if not months with still no clear understanding of what was taking place in the grand scheme of things other than successfully following directions to an end result.

My brother, for instance, is "mechanically inclined", and can intuitively fix, take apart and reconstitute, figure out and pretty much do any such thing right the first time without ever having had prior instruction of any kind. Musically and artistically, however, he is the first to tell you he could not play a radio let alone learn a musical instrument and is lucky to make stick figures when it comes to drawing. Could he eventually learn to do such things, absolutely, but his mind is geared towards the mechanical/industrial side of things rather than the artistic. Not a knock in any way, just reality and a blessing depending upon how one looks at their own particular gifts.

I, on the other hand. struggle with mechanical and artistic things but love taking such challenges on in part because I derive so much satisfaction when I accomplish anything in these areas. When things don't come easy, small successes bring great joy.

So, I would have messed with the stool as well, seeing it as a challenge to figure it out and somehow make it work with my limited carpentry skills, but I certainly understand those who would rather choose to spend their precious free time engaged in areas in which they feel more comfortable, competent, and enlightened.
I definitely agree with the idea that it takes innate ability to transcend the level of somewhat competent and go on to the level of world master. In my post, I wasn't talking about people becoming grand masters at these various things, but instead that there is a level of competence that any average person can achieve.

If a person devotes some period of time to learning to play the guitar, s/he will develop some aspect of competency, but it doesn't have to be Carnegie Hall to enjoy oneself. If one expects that this effort will bring that person to the level of a Segovia, then there is no point in even trying.

A person does not need to be a master cabinetmaker to make serviceable practical pieces for the home, such as my wife's cabinets.

A person does not need to be a master mechanic to change oil and brake pads.

A person does not need to be a master plumber to replace bathroom faucets and such.

A person does not need to be a master electrician to do basic repairs.

There are many things that any average person can do if s/he is motivated to learn to do any of them. There can be quite a sense of accomplishment and money saved without having to be the world's best at doing it. Many people who do these things for a living are not the world's best either. Comparing our own efforts to the best in the world is a surefire way to demotivate ourselves to attempt anything.

Tony
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  #22  
Old 12-30-2019, 09:53 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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I’ve spent some time working with ‘do it yourself’ handymen/women and have to say quality of workmanship is all over the map, from folks who insist on doing things right from the ground up, to some pretty shoddy work that to be repaired, requires someone *who actually knows what they’re doing* - I’ve paid handsomely to fully qualified electricians and repair people to fix up a dangerous mess left behind by some cheapos wanting to save money. The systems of apprenticeship in the trades have an important role to play in training to assure quality control.
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  #23  
Old 12-31-2019, 12:43 AM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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I was one of those kids that liked taking things apart and putting them back together. I always modified my bicycles, cars, motorcycles...

Then I joined the navy and first learned electronics, then nuclear propulsion. We were all kids in our teens and 20's, entrusted with the maintenance and operation of a billion dollar warship which was coincidentally our home as well, often several hundred feet below the surface and 1000's of miles from friendly shores. So we were also entrusted with each other's lives.

I got kinda frustrated with paying (at the time) $50/hr for some goofball to learn how to pretend to fix anything of mine, so I became an incorrigible DIYer. I was already good at anything mechanical or electrical and plumbing, carpentry, and other skills developed as I needed them.

I know I'll do a better job of anyone else on my bearings, brakes, electrical work, etc. because I'm the one going down if my motorcycle or boat fail. I can sure afford to spend the time, care and money for the best parts and tools to get a job done right, safe and permanent.

On instruments its not my life on the line, but I like to do my own work there too.
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  #24  
Old 12-31-2019, 05:05 AM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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I’ve spent some time working with ‘do it yourself’ handymen/women and have to say quality of workmanship is all over the map, from folks who insist on doing things right from the ground up, to some pretty shoddy work that to be repaired, requires someone *who actually knows what they’re doing* - I’ve paid handsomely to fully qualified electricians and repair people to fix up a dangerous mess left behind by some cheapos wanting to save money. The systems of apprenticeship in the trades have an important role to play in training to assure quality control.
I think a part of DIY is knowing when to call in a professional. While there are things we can do if we care to learn to do them, there is also common sense and also an awareness of what impact our actions can have on others. Putting others in danger should not be a part of DIY.

Also, for many types of work on our own homes, there are codes and formal processes one needs to apply to the city for permits for, as well as inspections to insure that the work is done correctly.

Tony
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  #25  
Old 12-31-2019, 05:34 AM
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I think a part of DIY is knowing when to call in a professional. While there are things we can do if we care to learn to do them, there is also common sense and also an awareness of what impact our actions can have on others. Putting others in danger should not be a part of DIY.

Also, for many types of work on our own homes, there are codes and formal processes one needs to apply to the city for permits for, as well as inspections to insure that the work is done correctly.

Tony
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