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  #16  
Old 07-11-2018, 09:47 AM
Johnny K Johnny K is offline
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Originally Posted by golfreggie View Post
When I was a kid, just beginning, and I lost my pick, I would get one of my mothers matchbox, the ones that fold over the paper matches, and fold it once and use it. Worked okay for a few songs before it tore up!
I remember when i started i didn't have many pics. And if i couldn't find one, i would use a penny. Not very ideal. Now I just put a pick in my pocket every day with wallet and keys.

I am really digging the Primetone triangles now. Next month, could be something later and greater.
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2018, 09:52 AM
jfitz81 jfitz81 is offline
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Originally Posted by Goat Whiskey Picks View Post
I also have a question. I'm definitely not an advocate of using animals for guitar pick material, but can anyone tell me why it's only the Hawksbill Turtle that has a shell that is a desirable pick material??? It just seems odd that of all the turtles in the world it would be the only one with those attributes to it's shell material.
I'm by no means an expert, but I suspect part of the reason "tortoiseshell" seems to be exclusively from hawksbill sea turtles is because hawksbills were already being hunted for their shells for other purposes (jewelry, etc.). The hawksbill shell is physically and visually distinct from other sea turtles--it's the only sea turle with overlapping plates on its shell, and the only one with the mottled appearance associated with "tortoiseshell." In other words, it's relatively strong and considered prettier than other turtle shells. So it was probably easier for a pick-maker to obtain hawksbill shells, because they were being hunted widely.

It also resists buildup of static electricity, which made it good for products like combs and knitting needles (and, some claim, plectrums). (I don't know whether shells of other species have the same quality.)

With all the products available, I'm dubious of real TS's superiority except strictly as a matter of tradition. I'm very happy with my casein pick--I like the tone better than other materials I've tried, but more than that it's a matter of feel. I like the weight of it in my hand, and it feels better on the strings (I find the BC material a bit too slick).

Thanks, Scott, for this thread! Looking forward to reading more!
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  #18  
Old 07-11-2018, 09:54 AM
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Charmed Life Picks Charmed Life Picks is offline
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Originally Posted by jojobean39 View Post
Thanks for starting this thread. I was involved in the other and find this fascinating.

I’ve used several different higher end picks- Charmed Life, V-Pick, Gravity, Pearse and Wegen.

My favorite is the Wegen Twins. They’re just perfectly ergonomic and they’re thick (I like the 3.5mm Twins) and they’re just simply wonderful. They’re not cheap, but not Blue Chip prices. I think they’re $15 or $20 for two.
I'll answer some more posts a bit later, but, Jojo, you bring up something important when you mentioned the Wegens. I think I may have discussed this in that previous thread you alluded to. They are a superb value for someone looking below $10 for a pick that gets pretty close to the big boys.

The reason Wegens perform so well is because their picks are cut (machined) from solid, factory-extruded sheets, not injection molded. 99% of the picks on the market are made through injection-molding (injecting a liquid plastic into a mold, which solidifies as it cools), typically celluloid, but also Ultem, nylon, etc. A major consideration when comparing picks is known as its mechanical ability, that is, how strong and resilient it is. This is directly correlated to the way plastic material is manufactured. It is impossible to achieve the mechanical properties of an extruded sheet with injection molding, just can't get there from here.

So that's why people love the Wegens so much. In many of their models, specifically the Bluegrassers and the tris, you'll notice these fairly heavy gouges running across the flat faces of the picks. This tells you these were machined, not molded.

Great post. Thanks for your time.

Scott
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  #19  
Old 07-11-2018, 10:16 AM
mercy mercy is offline
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For most of my playing life Ive used a flatpick. I didnt like thick picks so most of the modern picks didnt interest me, but Ive had many of different brands. Then I got a real tortoise pick and discovered why they are great, they are.
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  #20  
Old 07-11-2018, 10:51 AM
Photojeep Photojeep is offline
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Sometime this week I expect to join the "high end pick club" (thanks again Scott) so while I can't speak to their sound yet, I have noticed something interesting about plectrums and the sound they create.

I am a right handed guitar player whose right ear has lost the ability to hear high frequencies. I wear a hearing aid about 60% of the time to help fill in some of those lost frequencies. In my car, I'm always turning up the treble on my car radio so I can hear more clearly (being an American driver, I'm on the left of the car so the over head speakers are on my right- closest to my "bad" ear.)

All this means that as I play, my right ear is over my instrument and I've found what I hear is very different from that which my audience hears.

Even if I turn my head far to the right to get my left ear over my guitar, I've learned that I still don't hear what listeners will. It's kind of close but still not the same.

I'm mentioning all of this only to ask how much this pick material and resulting tone discussion has been created by what we musicians hear or what our audiences hear. Even with my hearing difficulties, I can distinctly hear the difference between my .6 Dunlop nylon and my .6 Ultex pics and while I like the .6 thickness, my wife thinks thicker picks sound better (I've played some with as thick as .9's but don't like what I hear...)

Anyway, I'm interested in reading Scott's next installment to learn more about these necessary yet maddening picks.

Best,
PJ
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  #21  
Old 07-11-2018, 11:46 AM
jaymarsch jaymarsch is offline
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Thanks for starting this thread, Scott. It will be fun to follow. I am fairly new to flatpicking and am just starting to get a bit better but my ears know what they like and I have appreciated the variety of picks to choose from these days in the marketplace.

Best,
Jayne
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  #22  
Old 07-11-2018, 11:48 AM
DukeX DukeX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfreggie View Post
When I was a kid, just beginning, and I lost my pick, I would get one of my mothers matchbox, the ones that fold over the paper matches, and fold it once and use it. Worked okay for a few songs before it tore up!
Good one.

We used to use the little plastic clips from bread bags.
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  #23  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:12 PM
DesertTwang DesertTwang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Whiskey Picks View Post
.... something that is never mentioned as Vespel NEVER wears out. If you don't lose the pick, it will pretty much perform just like new 20 years or more down the road.
If I may, I'd like to chime in on this, because my own observation actually does not support this notion. I am a huge fan of vespel picks myself, and I agree that at the typical thicknesses they're made of, they are indeed very durable. That said, I do have one amazing-sounding vespel pick with a very thin edge at the picking point, and that edge does get blunt after a while, requiring reshaping and re-beveling. I conclude that while vespel does appear to be very durable, it does wear, albeit at a very slow rate.
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  #24  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:15 PM
RedJoker RedJoker is offline
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Interesting history. As I've gotten better, I am less 'picky' (pun fully intended) about the material a pick is made of. I have a charmed life pick and it's my favorite but to be honest, I like it only slightly better than a boring old Fender Medium. I've played some other exotic materials and yes, they do give different tones but I would be hard pressed to say one is 'better' than another. Certainly a fun topic to discuss, though!
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  #25  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:17 PM
DesertTwang DesertTwang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post

The reason Wegens perform so well is because their picks are cut (machined) from solid, factory-extruded sheets, not injection molded.
Since we're on the topic, I'd like to throw this out there: I used to love Wegen picks as much as the next bluegrasser. That was until I received a prototype thin vespel pick from Scott, the OP. In a direct comparison between that pick and my other favorites (BlueChip, Fast Turtle and Wegen), the Wegen just stank. I really can't put it any other way. Volume, tone, completely gone in direct comparison to the Charmed Life pick. I have since abandoned Wegens altogether, as much as I used to like them. Delrin simply isn't the same as vespel, was my conclusion.
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  #26  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:52 PM
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Thanks for starting such an interesting thread.

I'd also like to thank Scott and Mick for always being courteous and respectful to other manufacturers. It's unfortunately all too rare these days. I've had the opportunity to speak with both and they couldn't be nicer behind the scenes, as well. Scott's picks are better than my talents, but I have 2 anyway. And thanks to some advice from Mick, I'm about to try my first thumbpick.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread
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  #27  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:39 PM
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I think, at this point, the whole "as good as tortoiseshell" thing is a non-issue. The material is illegal and most people today have probably never played with a thick, unworn, well shaped tortoise pick.

The goal today is to find a pick that allows you to get everything the maker built into the guitar in terms of tone and volume and also improve the control and overall ergonomics of playing with a pick.

There's a lot of good stuff out there at all price ranges. The important thing is that a player realize use of a pick of good material and configuration makes playing soooooo much easier.
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  #28  
Old 07-11-2018, 06:41 PM
LadysSolo LadysSolo is offline
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I find it interesting that people who do not hesitate to spend several thousand dollars on a guitar balk at spending $30 for a pick to play it, especially a pick that won't wear out.
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  #29  
Old 07-11-2018, 07:18 PM
HHP HHP is offline
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Originally Posted by LadysSolo View Post
I find it interesting that people who do not hesitate to spend several thousand dollars on a guitar balk at spending $30 for a pick to play it, especially a pick that won't wear out.
Lots of guitar styles don't get a big benefit from the premium picks. The one that does is playing complex single note leads and runs and crosspicking. Surprisingly few do that. Many can play their whole lives with a .73 celluloid and be perfectly happy.

Also consider, that if you are over 30, the guitar sounds that made you want to play were not made with premium picks. Doc Watson, Clarence White, George Shuffler et al used what was available at the time. They did OK.
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  #30  
Old 07-11-2018, 07:49 PM
RussL30 RussL30 is offline
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Thanks for answering my question, Scott. I didn’t even take in account the machining and manufacturing costs and the time and handwork that goes into for a small operation. Defintely doesn’t look like the price of vespel will come
down very much.
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