Orange County, CA; Investment in Tools vs. Membership to Urban Workspace?

[Brendonlee7]

I just finished my first acoustic steel string guitar this past year and enjoyed it so much that I plan on starting my second and hopefully many more. My first one was completed through a class where I had access to many of the specialty tools/jigs/space.

My question relates to buying a membership to a community urban workspace ($199) a month for the space and access to all their tools(drum sanders, other sanders, planers, drill press, bandsaws etc., ) vs. starting to use that money towards investing in own shop/tools(high investment)? I'm doing this just for the enjoyment so leaning towards buying the tools over time just thought a membership would prevent any immediate hurdles to continuing building right away.

On another note I've been researching the forum for recommendations on chisels. Instead of buying a whole site of high end chisels is there 1 or 2 size chisels that could get the entire job done? Thanks all for any help/suggestions.

[charles Tauber]

Without knowing the specifics of your situation, it is difficult to advise on buying your own vs. a community workspace. A community workspace can certainly work, however, $199/month is much more expensive than the "maker spaces" I've visited or seen advertised. $2400/year is pretty steep vs. setting up you own shop, though setting up you own shop can get expensive as well, depending on your situation.

As far as chisels go, nearly any "reasonable" set of chisels is adequate. As, or more important, is having the equipment and skill to sharpen them. If they aren't sharp, it doesn't matter how good the chisels are, they won't cut well.

There are many methods for sharpening. Which is best for you depends upon your circumstances and preferences.

Chisels can be purchased inexpensively in flee markets and the like if you are willing to put in the time and effort to restore (fettle) them. High-end new chisels usually have all of that done and only need to be properly honed. Lots of high-end new choices.

It does make sense, if you have budgetary constraints, to buy tools, including chisels, only as you find need for them. What sizes of chisels you will want or need, again, depend upon the specifics of your circumstances, such as what you want to use them to do. A typical "starter" set consists of 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4" chisels and will accommodate many things for which you might use a chisel.

There are different types of chisels, each for a different intended use. Knowing your intended use can help steer you towards the right type of chisel. If you are uncertain, a basic set of bevel-edge chisels is likely the most versatile.

[BradHall]

Do you have a garage or shed you are going to set up in? Renting a space can be expensive. As Mr. Tauber mentioned there are many tools available on the used market. Check Craig’s list tools on a regular basis. You would be surprised what comes up at very affordable prices. You just need to be consistent and persistent.
Make a list of what you actually need and another for what you want. Several “necessary “ tools and jigs can be home built. Do you have a budget in mind? It doesn’t take a full shop of tools to build a guitar, but it sure helps with things like necks, thickness sanding, drilling. Do you plan to build many guitars? Do your own finishing? For fun or profit? A good plan will go a long ways toward your success no matter what you do. Good luck.

[Brendonlee7]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Without knowing the specifics of your situation, it is difficult to advise on buying your own vs. a community workspace. A community workspace can certainly work, however, $199/month is much more expensive than the "maker spaces" I've visited or seen advertised. $2400/year is pretty steep vs. setting up you own shop, though setting up you own shop can get expensive as well, depending on your situation.

As far as chisels go, nearly any "reasonable" set of chisels is adequate. As, or more important, is having the equipment and skill to sharpen them. If they aren't sharp, it doesn't matter how good the chisels are, they won't cut well.

There are many methods for sharpening. Which is best for you depends upon your circumstances and preferences.

Chisels can be purchased inexpensively in flee markets and the like if you are willing to put in the time and effort to restore (fettle) them. High-end new chisels usually have all of that done and only need to be properly honed. Lots of high-end new choices.

It does make sense, if you have budgetary constraints, to buy tools, including chisels, only as you find need for them. What sizes of chisels you will want or need, again, depend upon the specifics of your circumstances, such as what you want to use them to do. A typical "starter" set consists of 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4" chisels and will accommodate many things for which you might use a chisel.

There are different types of chisels, each for a different intended use. Knowing your intended use can help steer you towards the right type of chisel. If you are uncertain, a basic set of bevel-edge chisels is likely the most versatile.

Thank you @charles Tauber. I agree that it's seems to be on the high for a monthly fee. If this were to be my last guitar I think it might make some sense as tooling will be just as expensive, however, I think I've caught the bug and my hope is continue to learn and build so I might just need to be patient and add jigs tools slowly or possibly pay for one month and utilize some of the necessary equipment during that time.

I do have a generic set of chisels so will likely learn to sharpen/restore with them. I've seen some Sellers youtube video's so will start with that. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions!

B

[Brendonlee7]

Originally Posted by BradHall

Do you have a garage or shed you are going to set up in? Renting a space can be expensive. As Mr. Tauber mentioned there are many tools available on the used market. Check Craig’s list tools on a regular basis. You would be surprised what comes up at very affordable prices. You just need to be consistent and persistent.
Make a list of what you actually need and another for what you want. Several “necessary “ tools and jigs can be home built. Do you have a budget in mind? It doesn’t take a full shop of tools to build a guitar, but it sure helps with things like necks, thickness sanding, drilling. Do you plan to build many guitars? Do your own finishing? For fun or profit? A good plan will go a long ways toward your success no matter what you do. Good luck.

@Brad. Currently I have a small space in the garage to get started. I have a few items(mold, jigs) but will be starting mostly from scratch. Thanks for the suggestion on the used market; I'll keep my eyes open for that. I don't have a budget in mind just yet but I do plan on building more guitars. I plan on doing my own finish like my last at my home and will mostly be building for fun. From what I'm gathering it's fairly difficult to make an income building guitars but would definitely consider if I had built a handful and the quality was good enough. Many thanks Brad for the help and suggestions.

I've seen other threads walking through their guitar build. I think when I'm ready I'll do something similar. Very to new to guitar building, however, love the learning process and trying to improve on the last.

Some Indian Rosewood just arrived today for the build from LMI. Thanks all!

[Bruce Sexauer]

You don’t really need much in the way of stationary power tools to build guitars, and what you do need can be leased. That’s what I did 35 years ago. After a few years of modest (write off-able) payments a dollar bought the lot. Bandsaw, tablesaw, jointer, planer, thickness sander, drill press, and compressor. I mill my own timber, many don’t and need less. I built for years with a 14” bandsaw and a drill press, plus a 690 router. A 3/4” chisel does almost everything. My most used tool after that is my record 9 1/2 plane.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

... I mill my own timber, many don’t and need less. I built for years with a 14” bandsaw and a drill press, plus a 690 router. A 3/4” chisel does almost everything. My most used tool after that is my record 9 1/2 plane.

As Bruce points out, one doesn't need a lot of tools to be able to make guitars. Like him, for a decade or so, my machines consisted of a 14" bandsaw and a router.

If you buy rough guitars parts, as opposed to rough lumber, you don't need much in the way of machinery. When you start into re-sawing larger planks of wood, having suitable machinery makes sense.

After four decades of guitar making - and some other types of woodworking - I now have a pretty well equipped small shop, including CNC machines, laser cutter/engraver, two bandsaws, jointer, router table, table saw, thickness sander, drill press, dust collection and too many hand tools.

A long-time friend and customer, for whom I've made three classical guitars over the years, asked me about a year ago about helping him make his own classical guitar. I said I would and, but for COVID interruptions, it is going well.

At each task, I ask him, "What experience do you want to have today?" Each task can be accomplished in many possible ways, with many possible techniques and tools. For example, the task of putting slots in a fretboard can be done with a square and a backsaw, a jig with a backsaw, a table saw with a jig, a CNC router, with a laser engraver... Each brings with it different activities to accomplish, essentially, the same result. We opted for laser cut, pocketed fret slots. (Pocketing them eliminates the need for the steps involved in adding wood binding to the edges of the fretboard to cover the ends of through slots.)

Yesterday, we started on making the classical guitar bridges for the two guitars. I asked him, "What experience do you want to have today?" My vote was a CNC router that would "bang" the finished shape out in one shot, but for rounding a few edges. He opted for "hand made". I said, "Okay, if that's what you want."

We went through my wood pile and selected a piece of black walnut that matches the back and sides. The piece we selected was 6 feet long, 2 inches thick and 5-1/2 inches wide. (An alternative was to simply buy pre-sized walnut guitar bridge blanks.) I've made furniture from rough-sawn lumber to finished piece using nothing but hand tools. It's certainly possible, and can be fun, but is a lot of work and requires finely-tuned tools. To process the walnut, while reducing the labour intensity, we used machines: we jointed a face and edge using a power jointer; used the radial arm saw to cut off the length we wanted; bandsawed the piece into individual blanks. We latter used the jointer, thickness planer and radial arm saw to make wooden blocks to which to attach the bridges to facilitate all subsequent work on the bridges.

Having used machinery to create appropriately sized blanks, the rest of the bridge will be made with nothing but hand tools. First we used a shooting board, with a specialized shooting hand plane, to square the ends, true the edges, plane it to final width, dress the bottom and thickness the top. Then we pulled out the plow plane - a relatively special-purpose hand plane that was a very common woodworking tool before the invention of the electric router. This was used to make grooves for the saddle slot and define the string tie block. Next we meet, we'll use a backsaw to cut the wings of the bridge to thickness and length, then chisels to ramp the area between bridge slot and tie block, and a rasp and files to round the wings of the bridge. We'll then use cabinet scrapers and small planes to round edges and smooth necessary surfaces, completing the bridge.

My point is that additional tooling and machinery provide additional choices for how you want to accomplish any given task. With those choices come the potential for different experiences to accomplish the same result. Some of those choices can save labour, some can increase repeatability, some can increase accuracy, but aren't necessary. Choices that involve machinery often bring with them noise and dust, neither of which tend to make for pleasant experiences, and require measures for management and/or personal protection from them. However, they are often - but not always - faster and less physical labour than alternatives.

Ultimately, my point is that, in planning your shop setup, ask yourself the question, "What experience do I want to have [while making guitars]?"

[Brendonlee7]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

You don’t really need much in the way of stationary power tools to build guitars, and what you do need can be leased. That’s what I did 35 years ago. After a few years of modest (write off-able) payments a dollar bought the lot. Bandsaw, tablesaw, jointer, planer, thickness sander, drill press, and compressor. I mill my own timber, many don’t and need less. I built for years with a 14” bandsaw and a drill press, plus a 690 router. A 3/4” chisel does almost everything. My most used tool after that is my record 9 1/2 plane.

@Bruce Sexauer; thanks for your replay and suggestions. Nice to see and hear that much can be accomplished without the large initial outlay. I will start with the basics.

[Brendonlee7]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

As Bruce points out, one doesn't need a lot of tools to be able to make guitars. Like him, for a decade or so, my machines consisted of a 14" bandsaw and a router.

If you buy rough guitars parts, as opposed to rough lumber, you don't need much in the way of machinery. When you start into re-sawing larger planks of wood, having suitable machinery makes sense.

After four decades of guitar making - and some other types of woodworking - I now have a pretty well equipped small shop, including CNC machines, laser cutter/engraver, two bandsaws, jointer, router table, table saw, thickness sander, drill press, dust collection and too many hand tools.

A long-time friend and customer, for whom I've made three classical guitars over the years, asked me about a year ago about helping him make his own classical guitar. I said I would and, but for COVID interruptions, it is going well.

At each task, I ask him, "What experience do you want to have today?" Each task can be accomplished in many possible ways, with many possible techniques and tools. For example, the task of putting slots in a fretboard can be done with a square and a backsaw, a jig with a backsaw, a table saw with a jig, a CNC router, with a laser engraver... Each brings with it different activities to accomplish, essentially, the same result. We opted for laser cut, pocketed fret slots. (Pocketing them eliminates the need for the steps involved in adding wood binding to the edges of the fretboard to cover the ends of through slots.)

Yesterday, we started on making the classical guitar bridges for the two guitars. I asked him, "What experience do you want to have today?" My vote was a CNC router that would "bang" the finished shape out in one shot, but for rounding a few edges. He opted for "hand made". I said, "Okay, if that's what you want."

We went through my wood pile and selected a piece of black walnut that matches the back and sides. The piece we selected was 6 feet long, 2 inches thick and 5-1/2 inches wide. (An alternative was to simply buy pre-sized walnut guitar bridge blanks.) I've made furniture from rough-sawn lumber to finished piece using nothing but hand tools. It's certainly possible, and can be fun, but is a lot of work and requires finely-tuned tools. To process the walnut, while reducing the labour intensity, we used machines: we jointed a face and edge using a power jointer; used the radial arm saw to cut off the length we wanted; bandsawed the piece into individual blanks. We latter used the jointer, thickness planer and radial arm saw to make wooden blocks to which to attach the bridges to facilitate all subsequent work on the bridges.

Having used machinery to create appropriately sized blanks, the rest of the bridge will be made with nothing but hand tools. First we used a shooting board, with a specialized shooting hand plane, to square the ends, true the edges, plane it to final width, dress the bottom and thickness the top. Then we pulled out the plow plane - a relatively special-purpose hand plane that was a very common woodworking tool before the invention of the electric router. This was used to make grooves for the saddle slot and define the string tie block. Next we meet, we'll use a backsaw to cut the wings of the bridge to thickness and length, then chisels to ramp the area between bridge slot and tie block, and a rasp and files to round the wings of the bridge. We'll then use cabinet scrapers and small planes to round edges and smooth necessary surfaces, completing the bridge.

My point is that additional tooling and machinery provide additional choices for how you want to accomplish any given task. With those choices come the potential for different experiences to accomplish the same result. Some of those choices can save labour, some can increase repeatability, some can increase accuracy, but aren't necessary. Choices that involve machinery often bring with them noise and dust, neither of which tend to make for pleasant experiences, and require measures for management and/or personal protection from them. However, they are often - but not always - faster and less physical labour than alternatives.

Ultimately, my point is that, in planning your shop setup, ask yourself the question, "What experience do I want to have [while making guitars]?"

@charles Tauber thanks for the lengthy response; gives me a lot to think about and plan for. In this case there is a lot I don't know that I don't know The initial tendency if the $$ is available is to buy everything you think you'll need but I'm seeing that much can be done with little in fact starting from the basics might be most beneficial in the way of experience building.

"What experience do I want to have"; before adding power tool, CNC, etc. I'd like to gain and build experience hand crafting guitars with minimal tools equipment to build a good base/foundation in the craft. Prior to my first guitar I had very little wood working experience so gaining experience on care/sharpening/proper use and most efficient and effective use of each tool. This forum along with youtube videos appears to be an endless education tool for this.

I'll keep your questions in mind as I move forward with this process; many thanks!!

B

[Fathand]

So, $2400 a year for the workspace with tools. You can buy a lot of tools for that, if you have the space to use them. If you live in a small apartment the workspace might be worthwhile.

Have you considered the convenience of working at home vs. going to the workspace. How far is it? It takes time, gas and inspiration to get up and out of the house. I have a basement workshop I have used for many projects over the years. Nothing like pausing the TV, running down and spraying a coat of finish for 5 min. then back and do it again as needed.

I do this as a hobby too, have fun.