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Old 09-03-2021, 01:35 PM
SteveA SteveA is offline
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Default Critique wanted...Thoughts on taking recording up a couple levels?





I want honest critique on what to do to take my acoustic recordings to another level. Not here for song critiques, as these are both co-writes that I came up with the music and melodies & of course sing on em...

But....I'm gonna record more simple Guitar/Vocals and want ideas what I can do for improvement...

So these are recorded with 1 mic, an Audio Technica 4040 about 10-12 inches away toward soundhole...Recorded on my TASCAM DP24 and mixed in Studio One (had it for a week)

On the second tune I originally used 2 mics. At the 12th fret a Sterling ST170 Ribbon Mic. It came out with hiss, so I had to drop that track. I know "I'm supposed" to double track but I guess I'm afraid of losing whatever detail I have in the guitars...

FYI, these are both 1 acoustic take just duplicated and panned say 48...I do have a Neuman TLM 49 as well, but not used here.

Anyways, open to all suggestions & thoughts
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Old 09-03-2021, 01:43 PM
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At the moment just listening through some cheap headphones but nevertheless sounds pretty good to me. Maybe post recording tweaking with a bit of reverb, etc. could fatten up the tone a bit.
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Old 09-03-2021, 03:38 PM
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Sounds good.

I also have the Sterling ST170 ribbon and it gives me a cloudy track in my DAW. I recently acquired a couple of acoustic panels and had the ribbon mic back near the panel which by accident reduced a lot of the hissing I used to get from it.
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Old 09-03-2021, 05:03 PM
jklotz jklotz is offline
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Of the top of my head, I'd say try a stereo pair on your guitar to give it a little more space in the mix. I like KM184's for acoustic guitar, but there are so many others that are good too.

Before I go telling you how I'd do it, let me turn it back at you and ask what you'd like to have it sound different than what you currently have? That may be a more useful way to help you. Personally, I like a lot of clarity, so I'd probably eq out some mids from the guitar to make some more space for the vocal, but again, that's just me.

At a certain point it all becomes preference.
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Old 09-03-2021, 06:43 PM
SteveA SteveA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jklotz View Post
I'd probably eq out some mids from the guitar to make some more space for the vocal
Yes clarity is what I want...I guess I should try double tracking too...It's hard enough getting 1 good take.

When I tried 2 mics there also seems to a little phasing issue...Good news is I am gonna track now, so we can experiment...
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveA View Post
Yes clarity is what I want...I guess I should try double tracking too...It's hard enough getting 1 good take.

When I tried 2 mics there also seems to a little phasing issue...Good news is I am gonna track now, so we can experiment...
In a mix, 2 mics is rarely necessary, but if you feel like you really need them (again, in a mix), then do things that are less likely to cause phase issues, like XY or MS. If you feel like the "production" needs a second guitar track, *record* one, don't just double the first one (IMO).

But, to my ear, and what you wrote, aiming at the soundhole creates a mix problem, especially with a male vocal. I'm usually at least a foot away, somewhere between 10th-12th fret, aimed at the neck-body joint. You should get enough bass and still capture the highs. Then, carve out some space for the vocal, even a low shelf to start is usually not wrong, especially if you've got keys, bass and/or drums.
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:04 PM
jklotz jklotz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveA View Post
Yes clarity is what I want...I guess I should try double tracking too...It's hard enough getting 1 good take.

When I tried 2 mics there also seems to a little phasing issue...Good news is I am gonna track now, so we can experiment...
I'm not sure what you want to double track. Maybe just try a stereo/dual mic recording of the acoustic?

Phasing with 2 mics can be tricky. 2 options (I'm sure there are others, but the two no cost solutions..) are to put on headphones and listen to the mics coming in. Strum a chord and listen for the low end. Move one of the mics until you hear the most low end. When I say move, I'm talking 1/2" an inch at a time. You can tell when the phase is out. The other option is to use whatever plugin or channel strip your software has that has a phase reversal button. I like method 1 better because phase is not always 180 degrees out. Listening with headphones is always a great way to hear the phase relationship between 2 mics.

With the recordings you posted, consider adding some compression and eq to the tracks. You might be getting closer than you think to what you want in a recording. So much these days happens in post production/mixing.

Hope this helps.
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:36 PM
SteveA SteveA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith.rogers View Post
In a mix, 2 mics is rarely necessary, but if you feel like you really need them (again, in a mix), then do things that are less likely to cause phase issues, like XY or MS. If you feel like the "production" needs a second guitar track, *record* one, don't just double the first one (IMO).

But, to my ear, and what you wrote, aiming at the soundhole creates a mix problem, especially with a male vocal. I'm usually at least a foot away, somewhere between 10th-12th fret, aimed at the neck-body joint. You should get enough bass and still capture the highs.
Yeah I heard online 2 mics is an issue and I think for me less hassle...Your answer was kinda what I was looking for as I aimed at the soundhole...I'll mess around with it
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  #9  
Old 09-03-2021, 09:38 PM
SteveA SteveA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jklotz View Post

Phasing with 2 mics can be tricky.

With the recordings you posted, consider adding some compression and eq to the tracks. You might be getting closer than you think to what you want in a recording. So much these days happens in post production/mixing.

Hope this helps.
Yeah I don't wanna be messing around with 2 mics...The first tune was no compression all TASCAM DP24...second one recorded on TASCAM mixed on my new Studio One whch I am a rookie on..I believe I decided not to use compression cause the guitars didn't jump..Probably a rook mistake...

But you guys are giving me what I was looking for...At least a starting point
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Old 09-03-2021, 10:19 PM
johnnydobbers johnnydobbers is offline
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i am a first believer in acoustic treatment with multiple panels.....there is no expensive mic that will overcome a crap room
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Old 09-04-2021, 01:07 AM
SteveA SteveA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnydobbers View Post
i am a first believer in acoustic treatment with multiple panels.....there is no expensive mic that will overcome a crap room
Good point...I have zero treatment
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Old 09-04-2021, 08:10 AM
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I have not listened on my studio system so I will and post again
On my laptop with some HP's seems to me you are already 90-95 % good to go...

BUT in general

let make some observations and maybe dispel some internet mythology.

Myth #1 No,, 2 mics is not inherently an "issue" and phasing with 2 mics is also not inherently and issue either, it depends entirely on mic placement and how much phasing

Myth #2 No,, you are not "supposed" to "double track" ,,,, double tracking is simply one type of recording method and definitely only one of several options and by no stretch of imagination a requirement or a "supposed to" especially not on acoustic guitar
But it also depends on usage and personal preference in sparse mix you might want a stereo guitar ,,, in a dense mix maybe a mono guitar will work better. So many variables involved that blanket "supposed to's" do not apply


That said one mic can also be fine (depending on desired result )

#3 if I am understanding ("just duplicated and panned say 48" ) simply duplicating a mono track and panning L&R , without slipping one track a tiny bit later in the timeline .. And OR... EQ-ing each fairly differently , is IMO useless , as it will only sound like a louder mono and still up the center, and will not really add any stereo width., if that was the goal ?

EA ::: In any multi instrument session sparse or dense EQ (High Pass filtering to eliminate low end buildup,,,,, and Subtractive EQ to make each instrument clearer and more distinct) are IMO essential tools ...

Compression ::: I am not quite clear about this statement " I decided not to use compression cause the guitars didn't jump"
Do you mean the guitars did not stand out (jump) in the original recording OR after you tried using compression ?

If the former than just understand compression is a multi functional tool
And while one function of compression can be to tame and or make an instrument or voice "sit in a mix" (or move it backward into the mix, to be less prominent )
A different function is to move the instrument or voice forward in the mix and make it more prominent and more clear ....
Because we have or want to have our recordings playback in 3 dimensions Left and

Now understanding I do have some hearing loss,,, Seems to me one possible improvement could be,, it seems that in Bookends the guitars get somewhat lost when the piano comes in . Which is where Subtractive EQ and perhaps some judicious compression can help. But it depends entirely on what one is actually after in mix aesthetics and sound
maybe you want the guitars and piano to blend into a less distinct meshed rhythm section ?????

In this recording for example I wanted the vocal to be slightly out front , the acoustic rhythm guitar to be pumping in the mid ground,,, and piano to be distinct and heard yet float in and out of the mid ground and background

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Last edited by KevWind; 09-04-2021 at 09:28 AM.
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