The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Other Musical Instruments

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-29-2018, 10:21 AM
fazool's Avatar
fazool fazool is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 16,562
Default Interesting thought on instrument perfection

Basically, in this short video the question is asked:

Can you name one thing that was invented four-hundred years ago that hasn't been changed or improved?

He shows the violin, whose design was "perfected" four centuries ago and has not changed since.

Why? How? How is that even possible. So, in theory (my words not his) it is at a point where it can no longer be improved and therefore, by the definition of miprovement, it is perfect.

Kind of an interesting "hmmmm" moment

__________________
Fazool "The wand chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter"

000-15 / GC7 / GA3-12 / SB2-C / SB2-Cp / AVC-11MHx / AC-240
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-29-2018, 11:07 AM
M Hayden M Hayden is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Glorious East SF Bay, CA
Posts: 1,064
Default

Violin design has actually evolved quite a bit over the last several hundred years. Early violins were baroque instruments with shorter necks attached with nails with a lower angle to the body, shorter fingerboards often made of fruitwood rather than ebony, a shorter bridge, lighter fittings (much lighter all-tied tailpieces with no micro-adjusters) and differently graduated soundboards.

Many of the instruments in current use, including Strads and Amaris and del Gesus, have had new necks with greater angle and dovetail attached - in some cases, the scrolls are grafted from old to new necks. Fruitwood fingerboards have been replaced with longer ebony boards. Bridges are taller to reflect the increased neck angle. The bass bars and sometimes the whole top may have been regraduated to different thicknesses to manage strain of steel strings, including patching and in some cases entirely doubled to increase strength. Fittings are modern and heavier.

The *basic* design is similar, but a baroque violin is a very different creature than a modern violin. I just attended the early music festival in Berkeley and listened to side by side demos of baroque gut strung instrument with modernized instruments, and it’s quite a contrast.

A link for anyone who might be interested: http://www.themonteverdiviolins.org/baroque-violin.html

Last edited by M Hayden; 07-29-2018 at 11:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-29-2018, 12:09 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 12,340
Default

… and now there's the usage of carbon fiber and composites to craft a violin.
__________________
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/UltraTonic
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Ovation Custom Legend LX
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-50M/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Yamaha FGX5
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-29-2018, 01:09 PM
posternutbag posternutbag is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,201
Default

I love Mark O'Connor. He is a brilliant musician, but his premise is flawed. Violins have changed since the Baroque period. In the simplest terms, chin rests and shoulder rests have changed the way musicians play and represent a large leap in the development of the instrument. Not to mention that very few of the great violins have remained entirely in their original condition.
__________________
Bourgeois Aged Tone Vintage D
Gibson CS 1958 Les Paul Std. Reissue
Mason-Dixon FE 44 Combo Amp
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-29-2018, 08:44 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 6,947
Default New Mandolin

As of day before yesterday, I have a new mandolin. A year ago I bought the best kit I could find from Chris Baird at Arches Mandolins. It was a bittersweet day stringing it up. Due to health and other factors, he had to take a job with health insurance, so he announced the discontinuation of the kits. Shortly thereafter a wildfire burned his shop to the ground. His house was saved.

So I was stringing this mandolin I built up for the first time thinking of what that would be like.

Ten months in the making, two building it and the rest getting the nerve to start the next step. Carving, scraping, making tools, binding, fretting, glueing, it was all new to me. Well, once in a while things work out. I figure I have $1200 invested. My goal was to build something that sounded better than what I could buy for that, and I exceeded my goal. By a lot.

If you know anything about the cost of a mandolin, you know to get equal quality to a guitar you need to double the cost, and add a healthy bit more for the scroll. A very plain Collings or Gibson will set you back $4500 or more and one with binding front and back, down the fretboard and around the headstock is more like $7500. I'm retired and dont have that much money. So I took the plunge and am glad I did.

It's not varnished yet. I spent all day playing it, sanding the neck, playing, sanding, and am close to a final shape. It's a great sense of accomplishment for sure, with about the looks you'd expect from a first build.

Things I've learned: mandolins are not overpriced. There is a ton of work there. Maybe you should not build the most difficult instrument to build first. LOL. Embrace imperfection. Be happy.
__________________
2007 Martin D 35 Custom
1970 Guild D 35
1965 Epiphone Texan
2011 Santa Cruz D P/W
Pono OP 30 D parlor
Pono OP12-30
Pono MT uke
Goldtone Paul Beard squareneck resophonic
Fluke tenor ukulele
Boatload of home rolled telecasters

"Shut up and play ur guitar" Frank Zappa
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-25-2018, 04:45 PM
BillRomansky BillRomansky is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by posternutbag View Post
I love Mark O'Connor. He is a brilliant musician, but his premise is flawed. Violins have changed since the Baroque period. In the simplest terms, chin rests and shoulder rests have changed the way musicians play and represent a large leap in the development of the instrument. Not to mention that very few of the great violins have remained entirely in their original condition.
As well, you can date a violin by length of bass bar and neck, whether the fingerboard is solid wood or had a laminate (laminate older) as well the angle of the neck and c-holes to f-holes. And the straight bow is a fairly recent invention. Bows were actually bowed like a bow until the early 20th century.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Other Musical Instruments

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=