how Gibson picks tone wood.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Garthman

What a lot of utter tosh! Does anyone here seriously believe that the wood from which an electric guitar is made makes anything more than a minute and insignificant difference to the amplified sound of an electric guitar?

Why, yes - as a matter of fact, many of us do believe that. Many of us (as demonstrated by several of the responses so far) also have the practical experience to back up that belief.

[Garthman]

Leo Fender picked alder to make the first solid-body guitars because (a) it's easy to work and (b) it's a very common (and cheap) wood in SoCal. He never called it a "tonewood".

And he developed solid-bodied guitars because - as has been mentioned - early "electric" guitars were just acoustic guitars with pick-ups attached to the top. Unfortunately, the top of an acoustic guitar vibrates a great deal (it's meant to, of course) and the pick-up vibrates with it causing all sorts of feedback and interference issues (that's why semi-hollow guitars like the E335 have thick tops - it's a compromise to reduce feeback).

So the whole point of a solid-body electric guitar is to minimize the effect of the guitar body vibrations interfering with the pick-up / string relationship. Of course, there will be some vibrations transmitted through the body of the guitar but these are very small and have only a minute effect on the overall sound.

[kscobie8]

Originally Posted by Garthman

What a lot of utter tosh! Does anyone here seriously believe that the wood from which an electric guitar is made makes anything more than a minute and insignificant difference to the amplified sound of an electric guitar?

This is hype that is, unfortunately, typical of many manufacturers.

Yes, I do believe it.


Bel isi,
-kyle

[Pnewsom]

Originally Posted by Garthman

This is nonsense and is precisely why people get the wrong idea about wood making a difference.

An electric guitar is not a quiet acoustic guitar. An electric guitar works because a vibrating (ferrous metal) string causes a flux in the magnetic field of the pickup which is converted into a small electric current by the pickup coils. That current is then amplified and the sound transmitted via the amp loudspeaker.

A magnetic pick up does not and cannot amplify sounds generated by the wood of the guitar. When you play an electric guitar unamplified the vibrating strings (and to a much lesser extent the body of the guitar) causes air molecules to vibrate which carry the sound to your ear. A pick up does not do that. When you "hear" an amplified electric guitar you are actually hearing the amp loudspeaker.

LOL, next you'll be telling us that electric guitars all sound the same. Perhaps you haven't done much electric work, or never had a good guitar to know the difference. You couldn't be more wrong in this.

[Garthman]

Originally Posted by Pnewsom

LOL, next you'll be telling us that electric guitars all sound the same. Perhaps you haven't done much electric work, or never had a good guitar to know the difference. You couldn't be more wrong in this.

No, of course they don't all sound the same. But the reason they don't is down much more to the electronics - both on board and off board - rather than the wood they are made from.

I've been playing guitar - both electric and acoustic - since the late 1960's and I also do mods, repairs and set-ups for myself and friends. I have played many, many, many guitars in all those years - different makes, different models - from cheap ones to very expensive ones. I've also tested every pick-up I've fitted to guitars and, despite what output they have been sold as, they all vary quite a lot. So, for example, a single coil rated at 6 kohm can actually be anything from 5.6 to 6.4 so there is almost always a significant variation for pick-up to pick-up. Then there are the volume and tone controls, the cables, etc etc all the way through to the amp.

Anyway - back when I started playing no-one knew or cared what wood their guitar was made from, no-one talked about wood and manufacturers didn't mention what wood they used. It wasn't an issue. It only became one when manufacturers and luthiers began to transfer, quite erroneously, the properties of certain woods used in the making of acoustic guitars to electric ones as a sales hype.

[skyver]

And then there are the toneplastics:



and toneformicas:

[Pnewsom]

Leo Fender was certainly prone to using the most easily available and least expensive materials in his production lines for business reasons, but many of the instruments from that time were outstanding, and more than a few were dogs. That being said, the early 60's Fenders often sported Brasilian RW finger boards, so pragmatic didn't necessarily mean poor.

Personally, I think the neck is the most critical of the wood portions of a solid body electric. I replaced the neck on my 62RI strat with another Fender neck(warranty) and noticed a difference in tone and resonance. It didn't make it sound like a Tele or anything that dramatic, but the difference was there.

If there is any sales hype going on, it lies with replacement pickup makers trying to convince guitarists that their budget electric will suddenly sound as good as a top end model. It might sound a little better if the original pups were of poor quality. On the other hand, professional grade instruments already come with good pick-ups so after market replacements aren't going to make that much difference.

In the end, choosing an electric is the same as choosing an acoustic guitar. Find one that you like!

[Krab]

Originally Posted by Garthman

No, of course they don't all sound the same. But the reason they don't is down much more to the electronics - both on board and off board - rather than the wood they are made from.
.

Then why does my basswood strat sound brighter and more twangy then my Alder strat with the same pups. I mean the same not the same brand but taking the pickguard off of one and putting it into the other guitar?

As to this one...

Originally Posted by skyver

and toneformicas:

It has a block of wood inside.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Krab

Then why does my basswood strat sound brighter and more twangy then my Alder strat with the same pups.

You are clearly deluding yourself

[Krab]

Originally Posted by eatswodo

You are clearly deluding yourself

It wasn't me who pointed it out the difference in sound. My girlfriend though I had bought a tele and was ready to read the riot act to me.

[Garthman]

Originally Posted by Krab

Then why does my basswood strat sound brighter and more twangy then my Alder strat with the same pups. I mean the same not the same brand but taking the pickguard off of one and putting it into the other guitar?

Ah well. A Strat is a completely different animal because in this case the pick-ups are not attached to wood at all. This is where "toneplastics" come to the fore. The sonic vibration patterns of plastic sheets are complex and they are even more so when they incorporate sandwich layers.

Miranda "Gorjus" Gucci developed the famous "Peevee C" equation to predict the behavior of a typical triple-layer Stratocaster scratchplate:








BTW this is only pertinent to genuine Fender scratchplates - her more detailed "Complete Theory Of Relative Harmonic Disparity Waves" must be used for non-Fender ones:

[skyver]

Originally Posted by Garthman

Ah well. A Strat is a completely different animal because in this case the pick-ups are not attached to wood at all. This is where "toneplastics" come to the fore. The sonic vibration patterns of plastic sheets are complex and they are even more so when they incorporate sandwich layers.

Miranda "Gorjus" Gucci developed the famous "Peevee C" equation to predict the behavior of a typical triple-layer Stratocaster scratchplate:








BTW this is only pertinent to genuine Fender scratchplates - her more detailed "Complete Theory Of Relative Harmonic Disparity Waves" must be used for non-Fender ones:

Thanks for that. It's all clear to me now.

[kscobie8]

Originally Posted by Garthman

...
The sonic vibration patterns of plastic sheets are complex

...

The sonic vibration patterns of wood are also complex.


Bel isi,
-kyle

[Herb Hunter]

It is inarguable that induction pickups only respond to string vibration but the string's vibration is affected by the guitar's materials and construction. So the issue is not whether tone woods affect the tone of an electric guitar, it is to what extent do the woods affect tone. Unfortunately, for many of us, the extent is difficult to determine. We can't all go out and buy several pairs of otherwise identical guitars with different tone woods to quantify their tonal differences. To make matters even more difficult, we have people that passionately exaggerate the wood's influence and we have folks that deny the influence with equal intensity. The truth is between the extremes.

[sjino]

Lots of passion on this topic on both sides. Nothing like a good rousing discussion!

I like and agree with Herb's point that tonewood does matter in electrics, but it isn't a quantifiable thing and it's difficult to determine exactly how much it matters. But IMO, it does matter.

If I were looking for a hollowbody guitar like a Gibson L-5, an ES-335 or a PRS hollowbody, you'd better believe I'd be looking at quality tonewoods because in those models I'm convinced tonewood plays a very important role. All other things being equal, I think others would agree. So if good wood matters in a hollow body, why wouldn't it make a difference in a solid body?

Personally, I don't believe an R9 Les Paul historic is four times better than a Les Paul Standard as the price tags would suggest. But that's a pricing issue, and there's no denying that an R9 (with some exceptions) will always sound better than a Standard. I believe the tonewood plays a big part in that difference.

In the end, if I'm going to pay custom shop prices for a premium model, I'm quite happy the manufacturer selects only the finest woods for those guitars. After all, how would you feel if you ordered a high end Gibson and then the Custom Shop guys just grabbed some planks off the same pile that produces the Studio series? Don't know about you, but I'd be ticked.