Yamaha NCXR1200R vs. Takamine TC132SC

[vbakh]

http://www.takamineforum.com/forum3/...php?f=1&t=3268

[BuleriaChk]

How painful will the first ding be to you?
Myself, I've almost learned to wince and move on....

[vbakh]

I've just ordered TC132SC and Acoustic DI+.

Thank you all for your useful advices!!!
Regards,
Vlad

[BuleriaChk]

Congratulations! I'm sure you'll be delighted!

[vbakh]

Thanks!
I am sure my next questions (in the next year) will be about setting it up, strings, So-Cool-Tube etc. :-)

Regards,
Vlad

[vbakh]

I've got Takamine TC132SC with Takamine DI+ direct box yesterday. Here is my first impressions.
- Acoustically is sounds good. Not very bright, but still good. Sometimes the 4th string sounds very ... special - as it was dumped by a finger. Probably it's because my playing style or because of the string itself. Anyways, I'll try a few different sets of strings over time, and will figure that out.
- The only minor negative comment is that the body-facing edge of the nut feels as quite ... sharp :-)
- The action is low, which is what I want. I am not sure yet whether to do additional setup, or not. My another guitar is well-serviced and PLEKed steel string, and the playability of this Takamine is comparable to that guitar.
- I tested CTP2 with Gentz-Bentz Compaq 300 amp and wasn't disappointed. Definitely, it sounds more natural than my previos attempt with Yamaha NTX 1200R. "Tube" at ~30% and flat EQ is what i liked.
- Then I put the DI+ between the guitar and the amp, and it lowered the volume a little bit, but improved the sound significantly. I've dialed the tube to 50-70%.

I play slow ballads/romanses with long-ringing notes, and this is where this guitar sounds just excellent. Strumming-like playing pattern brings up some very minor and almost "invisible" quacking.
Overall, I am happy with this guitar on ~95% :-) The other 5% goes to the very minor things I mentioned above. And, of course, it is very subjective.

Thanks,
Vladimir

[dreamincolor]

Vladimir, I'm glad to read that you are enjoying your new guitar. I've owned a TH5C for a couple of years and have gigged with it many times. I enjoy the acoustic sound of this guitar and find it to be a quality, well-constructed instrument. However, I have not fallen in love with the Cool Tube electronics.

To me, the guitar sounds edgy and brittle when plugged in (very unforgiving). I've plugged directly into my Roland AC 60 amp and also into our Mackie mixer with similar results. The sound - to my ears - does not replicate the warmth of the unplugged tone and despite lots of experimentation (ie. EQ adjustment), I haven't yet been able to resolve this. Increasing the Tube level does warm things up somewhat, but it also tends to make the overall sound muddy.

I'm interested in reading your comments about using the Takamine D1+ box between the guitar and amp. How has the sound improved?

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by Foss38

WHat about the TC135sc which is a step up from the 132 and also has cutaway. I think the 132 and 135 both have nuts under 2"?

No, the 132 has a 2-incher, which was why, a few years ago, I bought the 135. I have to say that I was a little disappointed with the 135 acoustically. I know the cooltube is its main sonic asset, but I did want a nicer acoustic sound seeing that I didn't plug in so often. It wasn't that the guitar was quiet, like the Taylor NSes are, it was that the tone simply lacked a sweetness I was looking for.

I haven't played the Yamaha 1200, but I did get a chance to play the maple 700 in GC some time ago. I was pretty impressed with it, too, so my favor would incline towards the 1200 if the choice was either that or the Takamine 132.

[BuleriaChk]

I felt the same way when I auditioned the Roland AC-60 (which is why I didn't purchase it). but both my TH-5C and my ("Flamenco") TC-132SC sound great through my Fishman SA-220 (SoloAmp) and my LR Baggs A-Ref (especially with the upgrade), and also through my Roland AC-33....

(I don't know about the Mackie, but my guitars also sound great through Roland Cube CM-30's.

But I leave the Cool Tube turned all the way down for my guitars - in any case, I don't notice much of an effect - I think the effect is more pronounced for steel string guitars....

I use the DI+ box in my home studio (into my amps or a M-16DX); for my use, it doesn't affect the basic sound, since I use it primarily to save batteries. But it sure doesn't hurt.........:-)

Originally Posted by dreamincolor

Vladimir, I'm glad to read that you are enjoying your new guitar. I've owned a TH5C for a couple of years and have gigged with it many times. I enjoy the acoustic sound of this guitar and find it to be a quality, well-constructed instrument. However, I have not fallen in love with the Cool Tube electronics.

To me, the guitar sounds edgy and brittle when plugged in (very unforgiving). I've plugged directly into my Roland AC 60 amp and also into our Mackie mixer with similar results. The sound - to my ears - does not replicate the warmth of the unplugged tone and despite lots of experimentation (ie. EQ adjustment), I haven't yet been able to resolve this. Increasing the Tube level does warm things up somewhat, but it also tends to make the overall sound muddy.

I'm interested in reading your comments about using the Takamine D1+ box between the guitar and amp. How has the sound improved?

[dreamincolor]

Thanks Chuck. One of my buddies has a Fishman SoloAmp. I'll give it a try through that for comparison purposes.

[BuleriaChk]

Make sure you check the tweeter adjustment...

Originally Posted by dreamincolor

Thanks Chuck. One of my buddies has a Fishman SoloAmp. I'll give it a sin through that for comparison purposes.

[franchelB]

Originally Posted by dreamincolor

Vladimir, I'm glad to read that you are enjoying your new guitar. I've owned a TH5C for a couple of years and have gigged with it many times. I enjoy the acoustic sound of this guitar and find it to be a quality, well-constructed instrument. However, I have not fallen in love with the Cool Tube electronics.

To me, the guitar sounds edgy and brittle when plugged in (very unforgiving). I've plugged directly into my Roland AC 60 amp and also into our Mackie mixer with similar results. The sound - to my ears - does not replicate the warmth of the unplugged tone and despite lots of experimentation (ie. EQ adjustment), I haven't yet been able to resolve this. Increasing the Tube level does warm things up somewhat, but it also tends to make the overall sound muddy.

I'm interested in reading your comments about using the Takamine D1+ box between the guitar and amp. How has the sound improved?

Interesting. I found my CD132SC to sound best with 2 AKG "pencil" mics angled towards the soundhole. It just sounds ok "D.I.'d" into the P.A.

[vbakh]

Originally Posted by dreamincolor

I'm interested in reading your comments about using the Takamine D1+ box between the guitar and amp. How has the sound improved?

Hi!

Thanks for your feedback and comments.
I haven't gigged with Takamine yet, so my impressions are based on my (limited) tests in my room only.

Today I tried another option of connecting TC132 to DI+ and then DI+ to Genz-Benz's 2nd channel through XLR. It generated hi-frequency noise and I wasn't able to remove it. I believe I heard the same noise when I used an external preamp (Schertler Pre-AIII) with XLR output with my other guitars, so most probably this is the amp's issue.

Then I switched between "DI or not DI" w. 1/4" connector configurations a few times. Definitely, the configuration with DI sounded clearer and less "artificial" than one without it, but less loud (which is acceptable to me).
A tube "worms" the sound, but, again, I can hear it well enough only when I play long-sounding notes with a little bit of reverb.
To my taste, it sounds good, I like it, but I am not too experienced "plugged in" player. I understand that a good condensor mike or a pair of mikes usually capture acoustic sound much better than a pickup, but I haven't recorded TC132 trhough the mikes yet and can't compare.

I also played through the DI+ with my steel string gypsy jazz guitar & K&K maccafery pickup. I didn't hear any significant difference between those two "DI or not DI" configurations.

Hope it helps.

Regards,
Vladimir

[vbakh]

P.S. I just tested recording through the pickup (flat EQ) -> DI+ (as a power supply for CTP2) -> audio interface -> computer:
- I hate the recorded dry sound :-)
- Tube doesn't matter

[BuleriaChk]

Yeah, recording (actually, production) is a real art, unless your technique is really, really, REALLY together. And even then, it is a crapshoot as much as an art - requiring heavy involvement in Sonar, Protools or one of the major DAW's (reverb, compression, EQ..... agh!).

Even Live, it is problematic, for me, even with the Takamine/SoloAmp. Each performance is different, and depends on many variables (guitar strings, volume,fingernails, callouses, etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseam). Especially volume - at low volumes I get a consistent sound requiring minimal tweaking (except for an occasional nasty surprise, when I am under pressure and a knob got turned by mistake)...

And, ESPECIALLY with nylon string. Nevertheless, the Tak/SA or A-Ref (or SR Jam 150) is the best I've found so far, and is almost foolproof provided I think things out in advance.....

Me, I'm still working on technique, though... at 70, yet (sigh)... and to think that Paco de Lucia had it wired by the time he was 18..... and sounded fantastic on the bootleg tape I did of him years ago (my bad...:-), live, in concert, no amplification whatever...

(My "teacher", Diego del Gastor, was famous for making cheap Japanese guitars sound just gorgeous... and this was in the late '60's).

Originally Posted by vbakh

P.S. I just tested recording through the pickup (flat EQ) -> DI+ (as a power supply for CTP2) -> audio interface -> computer:
- I hate the recorded dry sound :-)
- Tube doesn't matter