Time to Upgrade... ProTools or Logic??

[815C]

I have a 2002 ProTools Digi001 running on OS9 on a 2002 Mac G4. I have to pray every time I boot it up that it will work.

I'm seriously considering an upgrade this year. What are your thoughts on the best system to get? iMac? MacPro? MacBook Pro? Logic? Protools?

I plan to do some simple home recording and run video software (Final Cut Express) to make some guitar videos.

Thanks!!

[moon]

My choice of DAW would be Ardour - probably the Harrison mixbus version.

Not sure on the capabilities of different macs. I think only the macbook pro has firewire.

[Bob Womack]

We are having great results with Steinberg Nuendo on the Mac. I do multi-track music and audio post production for video on this system. We have it running on six or seven systems, including everything from dual quad core Mac desktops with 48 ins and outs via Steinberg interfaces to MacBook Pros with portable interfaces. For that matter, we also have it running on a couple of PCs. Incidentally, we use Final Cut Pro for video editing but the upcoming Final Cut Studio may kill that.

Bob

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by 815C

I plan to do some simple home recording and run video software (Final Cut Express) to make some guitar videos.

I know Pro Tools and Logic VERY well. People are constantly asking which to get. The answer these days clearly lies in what you want out of a DAW. I will say I can't find much that Pro Tools will do (functionality wise) that Logic won't and vice versa.

The full version of Logic comes with the ESX-24 Sampler with a packed library. ESX-24 also plays with Redmatica sample capture software and I've managed to get my favorite Roland Fantom sounds loaded into the ESX-24. I could sell the Fantom and retain it's sounds. Pro Tools comes only with a light version of their sampler (Structure) and a limited library. It'd be 2 or 3hundred bucks to bring PT in line here. Hands down NO comparison...Logic by a lightyear.

Logic also comes with Space Designer reverb (not to mention a host of other reverbs) Nothing even remotely close in PT......NOTHING. You'd have to spend at least another 5 bills to get reverb that good in Pro Tools and quite honestly Logic's Space Designer has kept me from going out and buying Lex's new soft-verbs.

Logic's delay plug-in's (especially the tape delay) are on a completely different planet than PT. Turn the delay section off in the tape delay, use it on the master for tape simulation. Stunningly good for a stock plug. Logic by a mile.

Logic comes stock with a great set of meters. Not as resolute as say a Dorrough software meter but the Dorrough is $300.00 extra. Pro Tools has nada. I think metering is essential even for beginners and to get a meter for PT would cost another 3 bills.. Hands down Logic in this category.

Logic has "freeze tracks". If you're softsnth heavy Pro Tools (as far as session management) can't even see the light of day compared to Logic. Freeze tracks also allow one to "freeze" audio tracks allowing for a re-thinking of instantiating a reverb (or any other consumptive plug-in) on every track. Not that one would, but when you realize the possibilities it's Logic by a country mile.

Logic has two mastering, brickwall-ish limiters. Nada in Pro Tools. This is as much of a Pro Tools fail as a Logic win but there you go.

Logic's "everyday" compressor is VERY colorful. Many don't realize but there's a hidden pull down menu in the comp that adds some fantastic layers of subtle distortion. No comparison here.

Logic's piano scroll editing is MUCH more intuitive for me as compared to PT.

I'll get arguments galore here but sonically Logics stock plug-ins are all ANYONE would or could possibly need. The same can't be said for Pro Tools

On the flip side: Pro Tools from a navigation and view perspective is MUCH better than Logic (at least for me). The mix section is MUCH larger and much easier to scoot along. The edit window, particularly when it comes to micro editing, is still the undisputed king of the hill. The automation "nodes" are easier to manage in Pro Tools. Logic automation node mixing has come a long way but still a clear win for PT.

Cutting and pasting in Pro Tools is as easy as it could possibly be. You can do the same thing in Logic but it's clumsy by comparison. Big win for Pro Tools.

Pro Tools B-3 is better.

Pro Tools has audio suite which is semi-destructive rendering of effects. I find it maddening that Logic doesn't have something along those lines. PT by a long shot here.

Pro Tools let's you tuck an already recorded midi track just below an already recorded audio track. This makes it a breeze to adjust midi tracks to the tempo and peaks of an audio track. Pro Tools here.

Color coding and naming tracks in Pro Tools is intuitive and simple (as color coding should obviously be). Logic is madness in comparison.

[815C]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I know Pro Tools and Logic VERY well. People are constantly asking which to get. The answer these days clearly lies in what you want out of a DAW. I will say I can't find much that Pro Tools will do (functionality wise) that Logic won't and vice versa.

The full version of Logic comes with the ESX-24 Sampler with a packed library. ESX-24 also plays with Redmatica sample capture software and I've managed to get my favorite Roland Fantom sounds loaded into the ESX-24. I could sell the Fantom and retain it's sounds. Pro Tools comes only with a light version of their sampler (Structure) and a limited library. It'd be 2 or 3hundred bucks to bring PT in line here. Hands down NO comparison...Logic by a lightyear.

Logic also comes with Space Designer reverb (not to mention a host of other reverbs) Nothing even remotely close in PT......NOTHING. You'd have to spend at least another 5 bills to get reverb that good in Pro Tools and quite honestly Logic's Space Designer has kept me from going out and buying Lex's new soft-verbs.

Logic's delay plug-in's (especially the tape delay) are on a completely different planet than PT. Turn the delay section off in the tape delay, use it on the master for tape simulation. Stunningly good for a stock plug. Logic by a mile.

Logic comes stock with a great set of meters. Not as resolute as say a Dorrough software meter but the Dorrough is $300.00 extra. Pro Tools has nada. I think metering is essential even for beginners and to get a meter for PT would cost another 3 bills.. Hands down Logic in this category.

Logic has "freeze tracks". If you're softsnth heavy Pro Tools (as far as session management) can't even see the light of day compared to Logic. Freeze tracks also allow one to "freeze" audio tracks allowing for a re-thinking of instantiating a reverb (or any other consumptive plug-in) on every track. Not that one would, but when you realize the possibilities it's Logic by a country mile.

Logic has two mastering, brickwall-ish limiters. Nada in Pro Tools. This is as much of a Pro Tools fail as a Logic win but there you go.

Logic's "everyday" compressor is VERY colorful. Many don't realize but there's a hidden pull down menu in the comp that adds some fantastic layers of subtle distortion. No comparison here.

Logic's piano scroll editing is MUCH more intuitive for me as compared to PT.

I'll get arguments galore here but sonically Logics stock plug-ins are all ANYONE would or could possibly need. The same can't be said for Pro Tools

On the flip side: Pro Tools from a navigation and view perspective is MUCH better than Logic (at least for me). The mix section is MUCH larger and much easier to scoot along. The edit window, particularly when it comes to micro editing, is still the undisputed king of the hill. The automation "nodes" are easier to manage in Pro Tools. Logic automation node mixing has come a long way but still a clear win for PT.

Cutting and pasting in Pro Tools is as easy as it could possibly be. You can do the same thing in Logic but it's clumsy by comparison. Big win for Pro Tools.

Pro Tools B-3 is better.

Pro Tools has audio suite which is semi-destructive rendering of effects. I find it maddening that Logic doesn't have something along those lines. PT by a long shot here.

Pro Tools let's you tuck an already recorded midi track just below an already recorded audio track. This makes it a breeze to adjust midi tracks to the tempo and peaks of an audio track. Pro Tools here.

Color coding and naming tracks in Pro Tools is intuitive and simple (as color coding should obviously be). Logic is madness in comparison.

Wow! thanks so much for that thorough write up - it really helps!

[muscmp]

i have PT8 and logic9. i would agree with 90% of mr. hanna's description of the two other than the color coding, which i find very easy in logic and the use of the audio suite in PT, which i found mostly unusable.

i decided to stay with logic and let PT get dusty. i do still use it for editing, as mr. hanna indicated, it is very easy to use but, i've found logic is just about as good as long as you learn the process.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by muscmp

and the use of the audio suite in PT, which i found mostly unusable.

Of course everyone's different here by way of mixing but some examples of the power of audio suite,

With Logic, take for example any track, it could be dialog, vocal, acoustic guitar, snare, bass guitar, ect that has dB inconsistencies I have two choices in which to correct. 1) a compressor or 2) start node mixing (automated mixing). I hate using compressors especially in the early stages of mixes where I still don't have total command of what it is I have sonically. I could also automate the peaks out by hand but that involves a timely process that again isn't ideal in the early stages of organizing levels as it commits to "auto automation on" and strips me of the ability (again especially in the early stages) of simply nudging levels up or down via the fader.

With audio suite I can call up a simple gain plug-in, highlight the offending peak in the edit window and adjust things downward in a nano-second. Instant compression without the artifacts of a compressor. In fact I've found that a very consistent track adjusted first with gain makes for a MUCH better candidate later in the mix should one need to compress in order to bring a track up front. This is particularly true for snare tracks.

The same thing can of course be applied to say multi-band compression. If I have an acoustic guitar track with resonant E or A string or both I can highlight ONLY the offending resonant string in the edit window and shape those strings back in line with the other strings with the audio suite multi-band. All the while not subjecting the good strings to an aggressive multi-band comp sitting on the channel strip, always on. Of course all of these setting can be saved to the audio suite plug-in so that if the problems arise in the 2nd song of the project you have that preset as a starting point.

If I had a vocal track that I want echo on ONLY the final words of a verse going into the chorus I can highlight the last word of the verse and audio suite that word. The alternative would have to be some form of ramp automation which is uber time consuming.

For me (and as I said everyone's different) that may in fact be one of PT most powerful assets.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by muscmp

other than the color coding

Well you may be correct here but I'll be ****ed if I can find an eloquent method of naming tracks, naming regions, color coding regions, tracks and faders.

I have to name my track AND region separately in the arrange window, at least I think. Do you have a trick?

I can easily color code my regions but Logic does NOT auto color code that track in the mixer. I can for instance color code a guitar track dark blue in the arrange but it remains light blue in the mixer.

Folders (which I use all the time) simply CAN NOT be coded in the mixer. They remain Logic blue. In the end to manage big sessions I find myself dedicating time to organizing my sessions. Pro Tools does all of this automatically.

Like I said I've never got to the bottom of Logic's coding scheme even though I'm certified. If you can shed some light I'd be grateful

[Pierrot]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I know Pro Tools and Logic VERY well. People are constantly asking which to get. The answer these days clearly lies in what you want out of a DAW. I will say I can't find much that Pro Tools will do (functionality wise) that Logic won't and vice versa.

The full version of Logic comes with the ESX-24 Sampler with a packed library. ESX-24 also plays with Redmatica sample capture software and I've managed to get my favorite Roland Fantom sounds loaded into the ESX-24. I could sell the Fantom and retain it's sounds. Pro Tools comes only with a light version of their sampler (Structure) and a limited library. It'd be 2 or 3hundred bucks to bring PT in line here. Hands down NO comparison...Logic by a lightyear.

Logic also comes with Space Designer reverb (not to mention a host of other reverbs) Nothing even remotely close in PT......NOTHING. You'd have to spend at least another 5 bills to get reverb that good in Pro Tools and quite honestly Logic's Space Designer has kept me from going out and buying Lex's new soft-verbs.

Logic's delay plug-in's (especially the tape delay) are on a completely different planet than PT. Turn the delay section off in the tape delay, use it on the master for tape simulation. Stunningly good for a stock plug. Logic by a mile.

Logic comes stock with a great set of meters. Not as resolute as say a Dorrough software meter but the Dorrough is $300.00 extra. Pro Tools has nada. I think metering is essential even for beginners and to get a meter for PT would cost another 3 bills.. Hands down Logic in this category.

Logic has "freeze tracks". If you're softsnth heavy Pro Tools (as far as session management) can't even see the light of day compared to Logic. Freeze tracks also allow one to "freeze" audio tracks allowing for a re-thinking of instantiating a reverb (or any other consumptive plug-in) on every track. Not that one would, but when you realize the possibilities it's Logic by a country mile.

Logic has two mastering, brickwall-ish limiters. Nada in Pro Tools. This is as much of a Pro Tools fail as a Logic win but there you go.

Logic's "everyday" compressor is VERY colorful. Many don't realize but there's a hidden pull down menu in the comp that adds some fantastic layers of subtle distortion. No comparison here.

Logic's piano scroll editing is MUCH more intuitive for me as compared to PT.

I'll get arguments galore here but sonically Logics stock plug-ins are all ANYONE would or could possibly need. The same can't be said for Pro Tools

On the flip side: Pro Tools from a navigation and view perspective is MUCH better than Logic (at least for me). The mix section is MUCH larger and much easier to scoot along. The edit window, particularly when it comes to micro editing, is still the undisputed king of the hill. The automation "nodes" are easier to manage in Pro Tools. Logic automation node mixing has come a long way but still a clear win for PT.

Cutting and pasting in Pro Tools is as easy as it could possibly be. You can do the same thing in Logic but it's clumsy by comparison. Big win for Pro Tools.

Pro Tools B-3 is better.

Pro Tools has audio suite which is semi-destructive rendering of effects. I find it maddening that Logic doesn't have something along those lines. PT by a long shot here.

Pro Tools let's you tuck an already recorded midi track just below an already recorded audio track. This makes it a breeze to adjust midi tracks to the tempo and peaks of an audio track. Pro Tools here.

Color coding and naming tracks in Pro Tools is intuitive and simple (as color coding should obviously be). Logic is madness in comparison.

Agreed, 100%. (I teach both and know them pretty well too.)

[Alexrkstr]

I like using the Digi003 with ProTools 8 on my MacBook (see specs on my signature). At the end of the day most DAWs do the same thing and it will come down to which one inspires you the most. Which one is easier to use. Which one you have more fun with.

Personally, using ProTools (starting with version 7 back in the day), I felt more "professional", even though I know they are unrelated. I still felt that "this is what the Pros use, and if one day I want to be a pro, I will know how to use it". It used to be a problem that they were only compatible with their own hardware, but that's not a problem anymore. I would recommend them because they have decent customer service - when they know about an issue, they will help you.

With that being said, my best recommendation is to get a MacBook Pro at most a year old and experiment with Garage band. You don't need to invest that much if you don't want to. Having both systems, sometimes I play around with GB just to lay down some simple ideas and not have to load 10,000 plugins