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#1
05-15-2023, 06:19 AM
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Solid Wood vs. Laminate
What has been your experience vis-a-vis solid wood vs. laminate bodies for archtop guitars, particularly played unplugged?
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Martin: HD-35, M-36; Gibson: J-200 Rosewood Limited Edition; McIlroy: AD-30; Guild: Orpheum D 12-fret; Yamaha: NXT-1200R; Eastman: AR804CE (with floater), DM-1; HsianMo: Art Gallery SJ-200 (Euro Spruce with Sandalwood b/s (!); Journey Overhead OF660; Eastwood: MRG Studio Resonator; MRG Octave Mandolin; Gretsch: Country Gentleman '59 VSE; Gibson: CS ES-355; more electrics . . . 
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#2
05-15-2023, 07:28 AM
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I own 41 guitars. Most are made of wood. Some are not.
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#3
05-16-2023, 02:04 PM
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 Still sounding great for an 18 year old guitar.I've played a couple of laminate archtops that had a nice acoustic tone...a D'Aquisto (MIJ) and a Sadowsky Jim Hall. Having said that, I think builders chose a laminate construction to produce a more focused amplified sound while minimizing feedback. Not all laminated plates are created equally. Builders like Roger Borys and Stephen Holst (as far as know) make their own plates and the end product is a thin, high quality plate that lends itself well to guitar making. In the case of Roger Borys, I read that he fashioned his lamination process after Jimmy D'Aquisto and that before his untimely death, D'Aquisto provided laminated tops and backs to a few other high end builders. If playing unplugged, I think a good, solid wood acoustic guitar or acoustic archtop trumps a laminated equivalent any day of the week. My 2 cents.
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“Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself” — Miles Davis.
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#4
05-16-2023, 05:39 PM
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My own experience is with acoustic archtops, primarily vintage Epiphones(1930's to early 1950's). The lower and mid-level intsruments all had solid, carved tops, solid bent sides(until about 1950), and laminated backs. The models with the laminated backs have a distinctive and appealing bark, different from their all solid brethren. I've owned quite a few(currently a '35 Epi Zenith, 14-1/2" wide), and it's a powerful, charming guitar. So, IME, from the right builder, laminated back, or b&s, can be excellent.
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#5
05-16-2023, 07:42 PM
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The low- to midline New York-era Epiphone archtops had solid (carved) tops/laminated backs (and sides post-1949 or so), and left nothing on the table tonally - and their all-laminated basses are still highly prized among savvy players for their tone...
Guild - whose early history is closely intertwined with Epiphone - produced many instruments with laminated sides/backs over the years, such that it's become almost a trademark... Nearly all of Gretsch's post-1955 acoustic archtops were of totally-laminated construction and, thanks to the ultra-thin woods used, can sound quite good - lighter and airier than their erstwhile Gibson L-48 and Guild A-50 competitors, and the similarly-constructed (and unfortunately discontinued) Godin 5th Avenue acoustic is a cult favorite among many of us here on the Archtop subforum... Back in the day when even the smallest neighborhood venue had live music several nights a week, and a player could earn a decent living combining teaching and club dates, savvy local semi-pros would buy a postwar 17" Gibson ES-150 (or the rival Epiphone Zephyr Regent) for its ability to serve as a true dual-duty instrument - and the best of those big laminated electric jazzboxes had unplugged tone/volume that could rival their carved-top L-7 and Triumph counterparts... Some players believe laminated backs provide a harder, stiffer, more reflective surface, and therefore have the potential to offer more projection/string-to-string definition; unfortunately, not enough experimentation has been done with laminated tops in serious acoustic archtop construction since the early-1950's. I've played a few of the Gibson and Epiphone dual-purpose guitars, nearly all of the vintage laminated acoustic offerings from Gibson/Gretsch/Guild, own an acoustic Godin 5th Avenue, and IMO a well-done laminated top made with quality materials has the potential to provide more-than-acceptable tone in a durable, reasonably-priced instrument - something upright-bass players have known for the last century...
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"Mistaking silence for weakness and contempt for fear is the final, fatal error of a fool" - Sicilian proverb (paraphrased) Last edited by Steve DeRosa; 05-17-2023 at 06:03 AM.
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#6
05-17-2023, 12:59 AM
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My 1950 Devon, with a laminated back, cured me forever of any anti-laminate prejudices.
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2007 Martin OM-21 1950 Epiphone Devon 2019 SilverAngel mandolin (“Swazi” - it’s a long story) Eastman MDA-315 2021 Karsten Schnoor Custom B&D Style 5 tenor banjo 2019 Schnoor Weymann (orphaned pot) conversion 1958 Gibson ES-125T 1967 Emmons GS-10 1976 Fender Telecaster (“Ohmygodthisweighsaton”) Lots and lots of other stuff
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#7
05-17-2023, 09:46 AM
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How big How deep How long a scale What top-wood What body-wood What neck-wood What fingerboard Set pickup or floater How many pickups (i.e. how many giant holes in the top, stuffed with metal) Wooden bridge or Tune-O-Matic Neck angle, setup, x-braced or h-braced, setup, tuner weight, setup, afterlength at each end, setup, finish type and thickness, setup, wood quality . . . And on top of that, random factors particular to each guitar that make gear-hounding so enjoyable. So for example, here's a 17 x 3.5 x 25.5" luthier-built big jazz box with a floater, maple neck, back and sides, ebony board etc. Over here, a 16 x 2.75 x 24.75 maple plywood guitar with a mahagonoid neck, two humbuckers four knobs and a switch, etc. Will the big guy be louder? MAYBE NOT, if it's set up with 10s and plays-itself string-height and the plywood guitar is set up with 12s mighty tall. All the best with your quest.
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"{T]echnique becomes the enemy. The thing that was keeping me from doing something new was how comfortable I'd gotten doing something I already know how to do." -- William Gibson
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#8
05-29-2023, 06:59 PM
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I can only speak for the laminate Collings electrics vs solid but if you look into what they did in the design they designed the laminate specifically for the guitars.
When I tried the i35lc vs i35 deluxe I preferred the lc (laminate). I ended up with a full hollow i30lc that they only make in laminate. I would guess that not all laminates are equal in the discussion either.
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#9
05-30-2023, 12:10 PM
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I guess it really depends on what you want to do with it. Archtops are weird beasts...their acoustic voice can be dramatically different from their plugged in voice.
Generally, if I was wanting to play, say, old school rhythm big band type guitar, I want solid wood. Or one of the afforementioned solid topped Epiphones, which can sound huge. I personally have an old Kay with a solid pressed top, and it does great for rhythm guitar purposes. If I'm just looking for a guitar that can be plugged in but has a pleasant voice for unplugged practice, then we are all over the place...the lightness of the build matters...compare a 1950's ES-175 to a modern one, for example.
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#10
05-31-2023, 06:56 PM
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Tonally it is a weird beast - different from even the other pre and post war Epi's I've gotten the privilege to try, in a way that's hard to describe. I'm tempted to say it has more presence, which is what drew me to it and why I have it over anything else in (once was affordable) archtop land. The thing barks louder than any of my other instruments but has a nice bass, and is capable of a somewhat sweet, if gruff sound when I pull back a bit. I've used it for swing/rhythm on gigs with a small horn section and it does its job just fine unamplified. TL/DR = partial laminate is a wonderful option, +1 for old Epiphones
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