Seriously Considering Switching to Short Scale

[R22]

[QUOTE=Dothraki;7262637]Some great suggestions in here. I never played a J45 but never really cared for the sound of them. I respect the guitar, and there’s been a lot of iconic recordings done on them but it just doesn’t fit my style…with that said, I would happily be persuaded by one."

Many years ago, My wife and I were in LA, for what I don't remember. I talked her into stopping at one of, at the time, big time music stores (Westwood Music). They had a whole room full of J45's. I had never played one. I had a Martin that I was happy with. I just didn't get it. I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about. They all sounded dead to me. No sustain, not warm and smooth like my Martin. What the heck?

Fast forward to the present. You would be hard pressed to get me to part with my J45. As we all move through this journey, things change. Life changes us. Our tastes evolve. I used to be a Strat guy, now I'm a Tele guy. I know, still Fender, but what can I do?

I'm not trying to talk you into getting a J45. I'm trying to make the point, however awkwardly, that what you think is "not your style" may be exactly that. It sounds to me like your style is evolving. Try everything you can get your hands on. Don't dismiss a model or company if you haven't played one.

[Pine Cone]

Originally Posted by mercy

a 000-17 has a dull sound because its all hardwood, even the top. -18 puts out more of the guitars potential cause it has a more flexible top. Even the formica top X series sound better than the -17

Not true.

I own a 000-17SM with a spruce top (most likely Stika spruce) with mahogany sides.

I am pretty sure most 000-17s have spruce tops. 000-15s often have mahogany tops.

The 000-17s are a less expensive build than 000-18s.

In the case of my 000-17SM the neck is joined to the body of the guitar with a simple machine created simple dovetail joint rather than the hand carved tradional dovetail joint found in 000-18s.

More info and opinions here https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=636776

[ssynhorst]

Short scale does not mean a small guitar. Nor does downtuning and capoing a large body guitar. A J45 is very large and a 000 body is the same size as an OM.

Many, most, short scale guitars are smaller. they are more huggable, a silly word but a useful one. They are charmingly small in your hands and on your lap.

Further, their small size allows a skilled builder to use lighter bracing so some of these are shockingly loud and full sounding played with fingers. Perhaps more so than a J45, 000 or OM played with fingers. And so intimate and comfortable in your arms, like a lover.

They go by various descriptions but think of the Martin 00, 0 sizes, the Gibson x00 sizes and some cheaper models. I have a cheap solid top According King that is maturing into a big, somewhat rustic sound, great for blues and mountain music.

A lovely, slender and charming country girl. Light as a feather in my arms. - Stevo

[SRL]

Originally Posted by Dothraki

Anyway, I’m debating on giving up the beautiful and powerful sound of my D28 for something that fits my style of playing a little better. I think lights on my D28 sounds too weak, what do you guys think of for a punchy blues guitar that can also be strummed without sounding shrill? I like warm, fundamentals, mellow but with an aggressive bite. Not too knowledgeable about short scale guitars so any suggestions of what to check out is greatly appreciated!

This description screams J-45 to me.

[Dothraki]

Originally Posted by Bluenose

My advice is go to a short scale guitar with light strings. Playing guitar is hard enough why make it even harder. It's not some kind of iron man competition is it?

Lol true. I’m just looking for a certain attack that will need to come from a more flexible string. I always used mediums for the volume and power but now adding voice into the mix changes everything. There’s a specific sound that I have in mind, and I hear it on looser strings. Think Stephen Stills…not his music style but rather his attack on the strings on Treetop Flyer and Black Queen…perfect examples. The way those strings respond to the attack.

He played a D45 which is scalloped and had some really light strings on it, wouldn’t guess it by the tone but yeah he played lights or extra lights. You can hear it on the attack real clear on those two songs. Treetop flyer live video is the clearest.

Edit: just want to clarify that is not what I’m looking for…just an example of why I am leaning towards a lighter tension.

[EZYPIKINS]

J-185 gets my vote

Surprising how comfortable they are.

Have only had the Maple ones.

Neck feels just like my Les Paul's.

[Dothraki]

Found the guitar I want (based on hearing it but haven’t played one yet) but unfortunately they don’t seem to exist.

Eastman ACTG2e solid mahogany as seen here https://youtu.be/l_gubY28Jt4

I search around and it seems it was replaced by OV…but still isn’t easy to find. What the bloody hell lol

[Boozehound]

Originally Posted by Dothraki

I will definitely check one out if I get the chance…never knew it was a short scale.

Many/most Gibsons are short scale. J-45, Southern Jumbo, Hummingbird, LG-2, L-00. Martin 000's are also short scale.

I'm a big fan of short scale acoustics, and Gibsons in particular. About half my stable are short scale. They have always just 'felt right' to me, probably because I played a Les Paul electric for many, many years.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Dothraki

....snip ...For instance I’m trying to get that nice loose but punchy feel in Sleeping On The Blacktop by Colter Wall, perfect example, only to realize he tuned down a whole step and threw a capo on. So not only are his strings probably less tension than extra lights…he’s also bending and pull-offs 2 frets further from the nut.

Hi To get that sound like Colter wall here :

You'd need to find a used "Vintage" (brand) $250 guitar with a buzzing G string.

See these two "experts"

[Dothraki]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Hi To get that sound like Colter wall here :

You'd need to find a used "Vintage" (brand) $250 guitar with a buzzing G string.

See these two "experts"

It’s not really the sound I’m after but more an example of what string tension was used to achieve the attack. Sounds too tight on a dread with medium strings. The way his vintage is setup wouldn’t work for me though. But was perfect for his performance there I think.

[Dothraki]

Interesting that there isn’t much to find on Vintage guitars. They sound amazing and for the price they appear to have good intonation!

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Dothraki

…Anyway, I’m debating on giving up the beautiful and powerful sound of my D28 for something that fits my style of playing a little better. I think lights on my D28 sounds too weak, what do you guys think of for a punchy blues guitar that can also be strummed without sounding shrill? I like warm, fundamentals, mellow but with an aggressive bite. Not too knowledgeable about short scale guitars so any suggestions of what to check out is greatly appreciated!

Hi Dothraki…

…Your perception of sound of your guitars appears to be solely based on how it sounds as a player and not a listener. You would do well to have someone else (who plays the style you like) play your guitar while you sit 'out front' and listen to what it actually sounds like.

While our perception of how our guitars sound is important (guitars need to be fun to play), it's not an accurate picture of how others hear our instruments or our playing.

When I used to audition instruments, I'd bring along my gigging partner to play while I listened. And when students used to go looking to purchase an instrument, I often went along to play for them (and vice versa) to narrow the field.

[Dothraki]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Dothraki…

…Your perception of sound of your guitars appears to be solely based on how it sounds as a player and not a listener. You would do well to have someone else (who plays the style you like) play your guitar while you sit 'out front' and listen to what it actually sounds like.

While our perception of how our guitars sound is important (guitars need to be fun to play), it's not an accurate picture of how others hear our instruments or our playing.

When I used to audition instruments, I'd bring along my gigging partner to play while I listened. And when students used to go looking to purchase an instrument, I often went along to play for them (and vice versa) to narrow the field.

I’m actually recording them in my studio, what I’m looking for has a lot to do with how the strings react such as the flexibility or physical tension of the string for a given attack. The difference can be a matter of nailing the feeling of the feel…or completely missing the mark. It’s a balancing act between the physical sound of the strings and the way the guitar voices those sounds. I used that Colter Wall example because it displays the importance of string tension for the feeling of the song. I imagine the reason he tunes down and capos is to get the tension where it sounds best for his style for that particular song.

String tension is talked about a lot on here but rarely targeted for sound, usually just for making it easier on the fingers and usually sacrificing low end and volume. I am looking at it more as another factor for how the sound translates. To me the attack is more important because tone can be adjusted when recording or playing live, although if I can get both right where I want it, that will be the perfect guitar.

[robrick]

My first acoustics were dreadnaughts.

Then, Taylor GAs got me for about ten years.

Now I play Taylor GS Minis and enjoy a 12 fret GC guitar.

I may get a Baby Taylor when I turn 60!

[hiddenmickey]

If your ears are used to square shoulder dreadnoughts, then I would suggest looking into a hummingbird. Slopes and squares really do sound different. Slopes seem to have a more direct projection coming from the guitar (if that makes sense). Square shoulder dreads tend to bloom in the space.

I'm a singer that plays guitar (not the other way around). I strongly prefer singing with a hummingbird vs a slope shoulder.