K&K Vs L.R. Baggs HiFi

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi A-USA…
I’ve never found an internal preamp that satisfied me.

Ditto. Me neither.

[Doug Young]

Interesting comparison.

The 1st Baggs 50 comparison is about a db quieter than the K&K, which affects some perception, but that is mostly due to the range from 500Hz to 8-9K, where the Baggs is down almost 10db compared to the K&K. The Baggs also has much more high end above 10K than the K&K, which rolls off rapidly:

Here's the spectrum of Aaron's demos: Green is the Baggs, Red is K&K (this is the first pair, the 50 Hi-Fi):

Screen Shot 2023-04-28 at 12.54.45 PM.jpg

That difference doesn't look like all that much, but it's 10db at 1-2K, which is a *lot*.

The 0 setting really rolls off everything above 500 Hz, being down nearly 20db at 10K - sounds pretty muffled to me. But with the 100% setting, the Hi-Fi comes pretty close to the K&K *except* that there's a big difference above 10KHz, which gives it a much more sizzly present sound for better or worse. Again, red is &K, Green is the Hi-Fi:

Screen Shot 2023-04-28 at 1.03.51 PM.jpg

I'd think that a combination of different tone settings (maybe 75%?) coupled with a bit of outboard EQ, and you could make the 2 match pretty closely.


The other thing that's interesting here is how much "sub-bass" the K&K has relative to the Hi-Fi, down below 50Hz. The Hi-Fi probably has less problems with low-end feedback, and less of that "thump" that often shows up with the K&K.

[Guitars44me]

Originally Posted by Steely Glen

Not having a battery inside my guitar more than makes up for any outboard tonal adjustments I need to make with the K&K.

It’s still king in my book.

Me too. I rarely plug in and when I do, the K&K works great. Sounds very good straight into my Udo Roesner and Acoustic Image amps. And PA too.
And even better thru my TC Helicon Harmony G XT or Red Eye pre amps.
I like that low thump, as I am always tuned down to D, or open D, etc.

I detest having batteries in my instruments and extra wires , etc. I have knobs on my amps, I don’t need them on the guitars.

Just me, and to each their own

Paul

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Interesting comparison.
I'd think that a combination of different tone settings (maybe 75%?) coupled with a bit of outboard EQ, and you could make the 2 match pretty closely.


The other thing that's interesting here is how much "sub-bass" the K&K has relative to the Hi-Fi, down below 50Hz. The Hi-Fi probably has less problems with low-end feedback, and less of that "thump" that often shows up with the K&K.

Fascinating comparison Doug. I think the graphics demonstrate how differently we hear and perceive sound. My reaction to Aaron's video was the same as his. And, I believe his hearing is much better than mine. Also, sounds above 10KHz are difficult for a lot of people to hear. But for those who do hear it, I think it could sound harsh. The "sub-bass" might end up being a big part of what attracts people to K&K and what keeps people from using it due to feedback concerns. A double edged sword for sure. If I recall, people who have hearing loss tend to appreciate those frequencies they can hear.

[fedexnman]

From the eq graphs they are very similar . From the graphs as well as the LR Baggs demo , I think the LR Baggs cleans up in the low end rumble , cuts mids a tad and treble looks to have a slight boost . That being said something like the Sunnaudio DI , lrbaggs voiceprint di , or others most likely can get the K&K pure mini in the same territory . I hate onboard batteries by the way . Now with all that being said I'd be VERY INTERESTED in an lrbaggs hifi passive with zero battery and zero volume or tone controls . I like the idea of tape over the super glue , putty , or loctite installed pickups.

[Doug Young]

[QUOTE=fedexnman;7240095]From the eq graphs they are very similar . From the graphs as well as the LR Baggs demo , I think the LR Baggs cleans up in the low end rumble , cuts mids a tad and treble looks to have a slight boost .
[QUOTE]

Keep in mind that that "tad" is around 10db. For some preamps/EQs that's the full range of the EQ boost/cut. The graph tends to make it look like less than it is. Of course this is just based on Aaron's demo, different player/guitar/install, who knows? But those mids are often what people say they want to cut anyway, especially if they're looking for a sound that blend with a band.

. Now with all that being said I'd be VERY INTERESTED in an lrbaggs hifi passive with zero battery and zero volume or tone controls.

I like no batteries, too, tho there's a case to be had for many people. Showing up at an Open Mic with a passive system with no control over what you plug into can be a recipe for disaster. And if you want a system very much like the HiFi, but passive, there are Dazzo's, K&Ks, Schatten, etc, etc, so that choice is readily available already.

Seems to me that what Baggs is trying to provide here is a "safe" predictable system with a simple low-profile end-pin preamp for those who don't want the issues associated with passive pickups. (and probably something that competes with Trance without the reputation for being finicky to install) People here on AGF are generally more knowledgable about passive pickups than the population of guitarists at large who want something that works without them having to understand impedance, have an external preamp, etc. I remember when PRS decided to use the McIntyre Feather, another nice passive, no-glue, natural-sounding pickup in their guitars - they designed a preamp for it, and I recall Paul saying "there was no choice, no way could we put out a passive system that requires high impedance, external preamp, etc for the broad market".

[fedexnman]

Yes , I have a k&k and I've had other pickups I. The last , I'm actually interested in the Schatten HFN passive .

[AeroUSA]

[QUOTE=Doug Young;7240119][QUOTE=fedexnman;7240095]From the eq graphs they are very similar . From the graphs as well as the LR Baggs demo , I think the LR Baggs cleans up in the low end rumble , cuts mids a tad and treble looks to have a slight boost .

Keep in mind that that "tad" is around 10db. For some preamps/EQs that's the full range of the EQ boost/cut. The graph tends to make it look like less than it is. Of course this is just based on Aaron's demo, different player/guitar/install, who knows? But those mids are often what people say they want to cut anyway, especially if they're looking for a sound that blend with a band.



I like no batteries, too, tho there's a case to be had for many people. Showing up at an Open Mic with a passive system with no control over what you plug into can be a recipe for disaster. And if you want a system very much like the HiFi, but passive, there are Dazzo's, K&Ks, Schatten, etc, etc, so that choice is readily available already.

Seems to me that what Baggs is trying to provide here is a "safe" predictable system with a simple low-profile end-pin preamp for those who don't want the issues associated with passive pickups. (and probably something that competes with Trance without the reputation for being finicky to install) People here on AGF are generally more knowledgable about passive pickups than the population of guitarists at large who want something that works without them having to understand impedance, have an external preamp, etc. I remember when PRS decided to use the McIntyre Feather, another nice passive, no-glue, natural-sounding pickup in their guitars - they designed a preamp for it, and I recall Paul saying "there was no choice, no way could we put out a passive system that requires high impedance, external preamp, etc for the broad market".

Yeah I call it a SBT for the masses. It doesn’t mean it’s for everyone and you are right there are many other options and if a player is happy with their current choice then that’s great. More competition and development in the pickup world is a good thing.

[dilver]

Originally Posted by fedexnman

Yes , I have a k&k and I've had other pickups I. The last , I'm actually interested in the Schatten HFN passive .

I recently installed the Schatten HFN active in my J-45. What I like about it is the clarity and lack of piezo quack. I can see how people who are used to K&K wouldn’t like the Schatten as it doesn’t have a lot of low end by comparison. This can obviously be boosted with an external eq or pre. But on a guitar like a J-45 I don’t really have an issue.

[SpruceTop]

Will this coming week be the week we receive our preordered LR Baggs HiFi from dealers? Does anyone have any new information on the release/delivery date(s)?

[fedexnman]

Originally Posted by dilver

I recently installed the Schatten HFN active in my J-45. What I like about it is the clarity and lack of piezo quack. I can see how people who are used to K&K wouldn’t like the Schatten as it doesn’t have a lot of low end by comparison. This can obviously be boosted with an external eq or pre. But on a guitar like a J-45 I don’t really have an issue.

4 things , I don't care for on the k&k pure mini is 1. Super glue 2. Woofy muddy bass 3. Harsh mids quack 4. Lack of presence (treble) . It's workable with eq but it's a lot of work and still lacks some air . The demos of Schatten HFN seem more natural right off the bat.

[JakeStone]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

It sounds to me like the HiFi has less mids and more bass resulting in a 'sweeter' sound which I like. Also note that the K&K NEEDS a preamp in order to sound like this. It is still very impressive for what it is. What do YOU think...?

Thanks AeroUSA !

I liked the sound of the HiFi.

I use the LR Baggs Anthem SL in a couple different guitars.

Is this new HiFi comparable?

[leew3]

Great comparison, thanks for all the work. I wonder whether the internal preamp will preclude the use of an IR based system like Tonedexter or Voiceprint DI? I suspect Baggs will reply that the pickup can stand alone so doesn't need the help of IRs.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by leew3

Great comparison, thanks for all the work. I wonder whether the internal preamp will preclude the use of an IR based system like Tonedexter or Voiceprint DI? I suspect Baggs will reply that the pickup can stand alone so doesn't need the help of IRs.

There's no reason you can't use an active pickup with an IR device or any other effect. In the ToneDexter demo I did years ago (still on the TD site, I think), I used the Trance system, which is probably the closest thing out there to the new Hi-Fi, and it works great. I'm sure Baggs would be happy for you to also use their Voiceprint with the Hi-Fi.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by JakeStone

Thanks AeroUSA !

I liked the sound of the HiFi.

I use the LR Baggs Anthem SL in a couple different guitars.

Is this new HiFi comparable?

They are comparable but the Anthem is dual source and the hifi is single source so...