Why not buy a $700 mic?

YamahaGuy · #1 07-18-2020, 01:13 PM

After observing one top vocalist after another using a Neumann KSM105, I couldn't help but be intrigued about them. Already owning a multitude of pretty good "lesser" mics, dynamic, active dynamic, and condenser, I watched GC used gear for a Neumann KSM105 and missed out on a few at fair prices and passed on the 104, which there were some of available. Anyway, I though about how much I've spent on guitars, and strings, and effects, and cables, and vocal effects, and mixers, and cables, and thought to myself, what could it hurt? I mean, my singing is better than my playing, so why not spend more money on the best mic one could likely use on stage.

Two weeks ago, I pulled the trigger and got a brand new one in black. Nothing earth shattering about its looks, although the gray carry bag is very nice, and the mic has a very strong chemical smell to it.

Initially, I tried it at home standing too close to my PA system with a sub and it was feeding back more than I'd hoped for.. Then, I demoed it live and it performed exactly as a mic should (imho) in that it was as transparent as could be. No mid boost. No sparkly top end. In fact, I found myself adding a bit of boost on the top end of my eq to match the sound I'm used to with my other mics. As with most condenser mics, it picked up a lot of low end and so I had to roll off some bass (I'm a tenor who could sing baritone if needed).

Is it worth it? Well, the wife tried it and liked it. She heard me through it and noted how good it sounded. It doesn't color your voice at all, it simply captures and reproduces exactly what it hears. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you buy one expecting it to make you sound better, well you'll be disappointed as it makes you sound like you sound.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Not wanting to make this comparison, it reminds me of buying a $25000 motorcycle (like buying a Taylor 914ce or another high end guitar) and getting a $50 helmet (like using a Shure SM58).

keith.rogers · #2 07-18-2020, 02:40 PM

Those are nice mics (FD I have a 104 and lust after an Earthworks SR314), and I have no problems at all with folks buying really good mics, accepting the cost/benefit curve for what it is, if it makes you sound better. And, some mics will make some singers sound better, no question.

Being devil's advocate here, though...

As to why NOT buy one, well, not everyone has $5/6/700+ to spend on something like that when, honestly, most of the folks are not keenly listening and will hear the difference, or if they hear a difference, will say, "ooh, so much better than last week." Don't kid yourself.

And, when some drunk takes a shortcut across the "stage" area and snags the cord with their dragging foot, sending the mic into an accelerated path to the concrete, you might end up asking yourself why you spent that much money on a mic for live performance!

Me, the SM58s (30-40 years old) are what I take out. They work, and have proven their resilience. That's more important 95% of the time.

Br1ck · #3 07-18-2020, 03:44 PM

For live use? Only if I were going to do the Bluegrass doe see doe.

Here is my take on mics for home recording though. Once you hit the $1000 or better level, your mic ceases to become the weak link. Your pre amp does. You end up with a $2000 mic channel, then your mic becomes the weak link. It ends with ten grand worth of mic pre combination. Then you make a really great 24 or 48 bit recording that you dither down to 16 bit. But your friends all want an MP3. Kinda pointless isn't it?

Brent Hahn · #4 07-18-2020, 04:17 PM

You may notice more of an qualitative difference in recordings than you do through a PA. I do both FOH and broadcast mixing, and that how it seems to me.

Brent Hahn · #5 07-18-2020, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Br1ck

For live use? Only if I were going to do the Bluegrass doe see doe.

Here is my take on mics for home recording though. Once you hit the $1000 or better level, your mic ceases to become the weak link. Your pre amp does. You end up with a $2000 mic channel, then your mic becomes the weak link. It ends with ten grand worth of mic pre combination. Then you make a really great 24 or 48 bit recording that you dither down to 16 bit. But your friends all want an MP3. Kinda pointless isn't it?

I think a good recording will result in a better lo-res mp3 than a bad recording. So in that sense, no, I don't think it's pointless at all. But I also think it's possible to make good recordings that don't have to involve thousands' worth of gear.

Tico · #6 07-18-2020, 05:27 PM

Another fan of good mics here.
Depending on the venue's security and crowd dynamic, I'll perform with either a $159 Shure Beta 58A, or an $899 Sennheiser MD-441.
The sound difference is dramatic.
Lucky me, I bought two new 441s in Germany in the 70s for IIRC $250ish each.
This 1966 classic mic is still in production today ... the only change in 54 years being to the mic clip.

The 441 is another extremely flat mic found in many studio lockers and high-end stages.
It has a 5-position bass roll off filter to address proximity effect, and a 2-position high-freq boost switch.
Even though it's a super-cardioid dynamic, reviews say it has the clarity, sensitivity and transparency of a fine condenser.

So, why not buy a $900 mic that doesn't need phantom power?

I think it is the most beautiful microphone ever designed.

441.jpg

Bob Womack · #7 07-18-2020, 05:29 PM

When we are recording live concerts we use our KMS104s and KMSs105s. They really are a step up for live recording. They' got a pretty well-known user as well...

Bob

lkingston · #8 07-18-2020, 05:34 PM

I use an Audix OM5: just like Willie Nelson and Ani DiFranco. I love the way it sounds on my voice.

Rudy4 · #9 07-18-2020, 06:16 PM

Lots of great choices for microphones. The bottom line is if it makes YOU happy.

You can take someone who does great live shows like Gillian Welch and David Rawlings and temper their audience receptivity with knowing they travel with their own SM57s and 58s to come up with what they consider the best live sound.

The vast majority of listeners of recorded media will be using $10 earbuds, so consider the final link in the chain. With music it really is 99% about the emotion of the performance and 1% about how it's packaged or presented.

My current favorite guitar represents a $200 investment, so I'd be "under water" to use a $700 microphone to record it...

Bob Womack · #10 07-18-2020, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy4

My current favorite guitar represents a $200 investment, so I'd be "under water" to use a $700 microphone to record it...

Absolutely. What's happening here is the hobby world is joining the professional world. It doesn't make sense to go there if you don't want to.

Bob

B. Adams · #11 07-18-2020, 07:48 PM

I own plenty of mics that were that price or more. Are they worth it? Well, if you want a mic that does what that mic does and that's what it costs, then spending that much the only way to get it.

Microphones definitely follow the law of diminishing returns. Is a $3,000 Neumann 100x better than a $30 generic condenser on Amazon? Probably not 100x, but it's definitely better. If it's the right tool for the job and you have the money for it, then I think it's a good decision. Will anyone in the audience notice it (or care) at a show? They might, but even if they don't, YOU will, and that's important too.

Tico · #12 07-18-2020, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Absolutely. What's happening here is the hobby world is joining the professional world. It doesn't make sense to go there if you don't want to.

Bob

+1 ... and someone posting what they do or have does not mean they are preaching that others should do or have the same thing.

Unfortunately that is a very common, but incorrect, assumption.

buzzardwhiskey · #13 07-18-2020, 08:31 PM

I will confess my love of condenser mics on stage. A couple years ago I bought a Miktek PM5 and when I get the chance (plenty of setup time, good PA, good venue, caring engineer) I really enjoy it.

That ends up being perhaps 1 in 20 gigs.

For almost everything else I like the Miktek PM9.

keith.rogers · #14 07-18-2020, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzardwhiskey

I will confess my love of condenser mics on stage. A couple years ago I bought a Miktek PM5 and when I get the chance (plenty of setup time, good PA, good venue, caring engineer) I really enjoy it.

That ends up being perhaps 1 in 20 gigs.

For almost everything else I like the Miktek PM9.

That PM9 is a really nice mic. I just sold mine. There's a Molly Tuttle live-ish/studio video where she is using one. When I listen to recordings I've done with mine, I have to admit it's possibly the best dynamic mic on my voice I've used. But, I don't play out at all anymore, so along with other stuff I'm sluffing off it went. Vastly under-appreciated mic though.

phcorrigan · #15 07-18-2020, 10:36 PM

I've been using a couple of $300-400 ADK large diaphragm microphones for Zoom open mics lately. One for vocal, one for guitar. I add a little room reverb with my mixer. Even through Zoom, I get comments on the high quality of my sound, with one person saying it sounded like I was right in their room.

I don't know what, other than the microphones, would be responsible for the sound quality. I'm pretty sure it's not just the preamps in my Behringer mixer.