Why TC Helicon Play Acoustic can't replace a mixer

RyanR · #1 10-22-2018, 10:24 PM

Hi guys.

Can I really use a TC Helicon Play Acoustic as a solo mixer?

Here is the story: My two person group (vocals, Acoustic Guitar, Electric Bass) played farmers markets and parties. We ran our mic's and instruments into a PreSonus mixing board and from there to two powered QSC K10 speakers.

Happily my partner got a great new job, but sadly it is in another town and he had to move. I decided to go solo (for now at least) and, to add breadth to my sound I bought the Play Acoustic. I'm digging the vocal harmony part (which is why I bought it) and some of the guitar effects are OK too (the reverb at least is way better than from our mixing board).

I'd like to simplify and drop the PreSonus board. But...

1. Is there a way to mute the mike with the TCH PA? I guess for the guitar you could put the unit into tuning mode.

2. As far as I can tell there is a volume control for guitar but none for vocals. There is only an "overall" volume control.

Both of these seem limited as far as basic control during an event. Am I missing something?

Has anyone tried (successfully) to us a TCH PA as their mixer?

Looking forward to your thoughts!

Ryan

RPK · #2 10-23-2018, 05:48 AM

I have a similar setup. Couldn’t you send the guitar and mike out of the Acoustic Play to each channel on the QSC then output from that QSC to the other? I need a mixer because I use a Beat Buddy

RPK

Woodstock School Of Music · #3 10-23-2018, 06:21 AM

I don't know how different the Play Acoustic is from the Voice Live 3 but I do this all the time just using a mono output on the VL3. If I need to adjust the volume balance of the guitar/vocal I just turn the guitar up or down.

This was my first version of my setup. I used a small Yamaha mixer and ran 2 outputs but I eventually stopped using the mixer

https://photos.app.goo.gl/721z2FnTpDNQw2HS8

gfirob · #4 10-23-2018, 07:31 AM

I use the separate out puts (xlrs) on the Play Acoustic into a small Mackie mixer to control voice and guitar levels separately into a Fishman SA220. Works great (but you have to set the Play Acoustic up that way to do this).

mikealpine · #5 10-23-2018, 09:11 PM

Probably oversimplified, and I don’t have this unit yet, just bought one today and am waiting on it to arrive, but what about setting the overall volume based on the mic, then fine tuning with either the control on the unit or the volume control on the guitar? As for muting the mic, mine has an off-switch.

AeroUSA · #6 10-24-2018, 07:52 AM

My Play Acoustic has replaced my mixer for the past 5 years. It’s an incredible unit.

open-road-matt · #7 10-24-2018, 12:53 PM

I don’t have a Play Acoustic but I have a mute switch on my mic cable. Like this one:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ot-with-switch

And a Planet Waves Circuit Breaker guitar cable that has a mute switch.

Both come in really handy!

Matt

RyanR · #8 10-24-2018, 03:23 PM

Guys,

First of all thanks for the responses! After thinking it over (and reading your comments) I'm going to try going "light" and use only the TC Play Acoustic.

Here is how I will try to set up:

- Use a mic with a switch (I do have an SM58 with a switch lying around)
- I'll mute the guitar with the Talk/Tuner mode
- The Play Acoustic is up on my Mic Stand on a tray
- I have a Switch 6 connected to it
- I'll run the Play Acoustic direct into the back of one of my QSC K10s
- I'll run the first K10 into a second one.
- I'll use the Play Acoustic as a simple mixer. You can set the guitar level and also the overall level so that will have to do.
- I'll use the BodyRez settings for guitar EQ (otherwise the bass notes get kind of boomy).

Now that is a very lightweight rig! We'll have to see how this all works out. I may miss the easy access to mute switches, level settings and EQ on the mixer. But I might not. And I for sure won't miss having one less thing to carry, less cables, and one less thing that can go wrong!

The more I use it the more I'm impressed with the Play Acoustic. In the end what matters is what sounds I can get out of it.

Ryan

BluesKing777 · #9 10-24-2018, 03:43 PM

I have the Boss VE8 and sold my TC, but...

On the Boss, I can make a 'blank page' file and save it.

Turn everything off - vol, effects and save as a number you remember, maybe No 2, not No 1 or you will get to the gig and think nothing works.

This should work. TC users? (On the Boss, I can make, for example, 3 files identical except for 1 has no reverb, 2 has reverb, 3 has reverb and delay..... and saved and recalled...

BluesKing777.

AeroUSA · #10 10-25-2018, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanR

Guys,

First of all thanks for the responses! After thinking it over (and reading your comments) I'm going to try going "light" and use only the TC Play Acoustic.

Here is how I will try to set up:

- Use a mic with a switch (I do have an SM58 with a switch lying around)
- I'll mute the guitar with the Talk/Tuner mode
- The Play Acoustic is up on my Mic Stand on a tray
- I have a Switch 6 connected to it
- I'll run the Play Acoustic direct into the back of one of my QSC K10s
- I'll run the first K10 into a second one.
- I'll use the Play Acoustic as a simple mixer. You can set the guitar level and also the overall level so that will have to do.
- I'll use the BodyRez settings for guitar EQ (otherwise the bass notes get kind of boomy).

Now that is a very lightweight rig! We'll have to see how this all works out. I may miss the easy access to mute switches, level settings and EQ on the mixer. But I might not. And I for sure won't miss having one less thing to carry, less cables, and one less thing that can go wrong!

The more I use it the more I'm impressed with the Play Acoustic. In the end what matters is what sounds I can get out of it.

Ryan

Don’t forget to set the K10 input to ‘Mic’.

BT55 · #11 10-25-2018, 09:36 AM

I don’t believe the premise of this topic. The PA wasn’t designed to replace a mixer. It was designed to shape vocals and add effects to both guitars and vocals for a SINGLE singer and guitar. Mixers are designed for multiple instruments and vocals. They are FOH tools even if you are the FOH.

RyanR · #12 10-25-2018, 01:32 PM

BT55,

You make a valid point. I agree with you the PA was not designed to replace a mixer. Maybe my title for the thread was not the best. I happen to be migrating from a duo where a Mixer was necessary so that was the way I was thinking about it.

Another way to look at this is, "what is a great lightweight rig for a solo performer (acoustic guitar and vocals) who wants to use auto-generated harmonies, and can the PA Acoustic be the centerpiece of that rig." I think that is a valid, and interesting, question.

There are lots of ways to set things up. For a very small gig I'll run the PA into my Fishman Loudbox which is essentially a mixer and and Amp together. But for a bigger outdoor situation where I want to use my K10s, then I don't really want to have to reach behind the K10's and set levels there. Nor can I do any EQ on the K10s (at least the version I have). So it is interesting to see if the PA can handle things. Sure I can always add a small 2 channel mixer but it is fun to consider how minimal can I go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BT55

I don’t believe the premise of this topic. The PA wasn’t designed to replace a mixer. It was designed to shape vocals and add effects to both guitars and vocals for a SINGLE singer and guitar. Mixers are designed for multiple instruments and vocals. They are FOH tools even if you are the FOH.

Guitaurman · #13 10-25-2018, 01:45 PM

For a solo act it's certainly possible to use just a Play Acoustic into a powered speaker. I've done it at home and it can sound great. The problem that will arise at a gig is the need to change things as the night goes on. Crowds getting larger and smaller might require a change of volume or EQ. I am a huge fan of lighter weight gear and easier faster set ups and tear downs, but not at the expense of putting on a good show. Small mixers are cheap and light. If I play with my QSC k10.2 speakers and my Play Acoustic, I use my Yamaha MGU10XU mixer.

Minnesota_Pete · #14 04-16-2019, 06:39 AM

Guitaurman,

Can you describe how you output your PA to the Yamaha Mixer, and how that is set?

I've been getting amazing sound through headphones on the Play Acoustic, but when I ran it out through a small mixer into powered speakers last weekend, the sound was not good. I ran 2 xlrs out from the Play Acoustic into separate mixer channels and tried to EQ each. Not a good approach.

I need to run through the mixer because I'm doing music at a wedding and there is another mic being run for the ceremony part.

Guitaurman · #15 04-16-2019, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnesota_Pete

Guitaurman,

Can you describe how you output your PA to the Yamaha Mixer, and how that is set?

I've been getting amazing sound through headphones on the Play Acoustic, but when I ran it out through a small mixer into powered speakers last weekend, the sound was not good. I ran 2 xlrs out from the Play Acoustic into separate mixer channels and tried to EQ each. Not a good approach.

I need to run through the mixer because I'm doing music at a wedding and there is another mic being run for the ceremony part.

Pete I run my mic usually a Shure Beta 58 into the mic in and my guitar (I use several at different times) into the guitar in on the Play Acoustic. Then I run XLR cables from the voice out and guitar out to separate channels on my mixer. I set the gain for the vocals and guitar to where the leds show barely no clipping, and eq to taste. Then I control the mix between the vocals and mixer with the channel volumes. I run separate outs from the mixer to the QSC K10.2 speakers since I don't always need the same volume for both speakers in odd shaped venues. I think my sound is great.

If your sound is bad check that you are gain staging properly.