#46
|
|||
|
|||
You may have hit the nail on the head. THey were running through an external mixer and had much more verb than I would have used. I'm not saying my one experience is enough to judge. I think Rick Turner talks highly of these and I value his opinion and experience. Perhaps I was just expecting so much from a $4000 sound sytem verses mine that was roughly half that I was setting myself up for disappointment. Or, perhaps I was subconciously wanting the system to sound bad so I wouldn't be gassing for a $4000 sound system. And Cake is right, I have heard some horrendous sounding standard "high end" JBL PA systems as well.
__________________
Mike Takamine EAN15C w/ Palathetic pickup system and CT4B onboard preamp Takamine GN93CE w/ TK-40 preamp RainSong DR1000 w/ Element Onboard pickup system Rainsong JM3000 12 string jumbo w/ Element Onboard pickup system Yamaha FG345 w/ Fishman Matrix II www.donohoeandgrimes.com |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
The Bose L1 contains a digital signal chain. Everything is converted to digital and back again. Indeed, if you use a Tone Engine with the older L1, it happens twice - analog => digital => analog => digital => analog => your ear. It produces artifacts. They're not too bad, and are certainly less noticeable than the plethora of cheap digital boxes out there, but they're more present than when compared to high end digital products. Kinda middle-of-the-road. As to use of the L1, it's not a magic box. It takes al of 10 minutes to figure it out, perhaps 30 minutes to run it through it's paces, at least that's all it took for me with a solo acoustic guitar. A near perfect storm exists in most sound reinforcement situations, with the historical use of cheap PAs in horrible rooms, along with the .mp3, iPod and computer speaker listening expectations of many in the audience. The Bose L1 has moved that sorry state of affairs forward quite a bit. Nevertheless, audiophile level sound, although not common, will continue to be around for some. |
#48
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
The folks that are setting these things up in various bars and restaurants, and running everything through a cheap mixer with too much verb night after night have never taken the time to really figure it out. And for some reason, perhaps because the L1 is different or perhaps because of the Bose name, I'm not sure why but people are very quick to blame the system and not the operator. I'm quite certain that if we could duplicate your beautiful system and disperse it to musicians far and wide there would be folks making it sound great and folks making it sound bad. Quote:
Sorry for all the questions. This is quite interesting! Matt |
#49
|
||||
|
||||
I know I'm responding to my own post here but I've been doing some research and experimenting.
The Bose manual describes the Analog Input as "A line-level analog input. Accepts a 1/4" TRS phone cable. Used for an instrument or other audio source." That's all it says. I messed around with plugging my guitar first into the T1 and then into this analog input leaving all settings on my blender the same. There is a difference that I can't yet describe but I seem to like the guitar better through the analog input. I tried both vocals and guitar into my Fishman Loudbox and then out to the Analog Input. I like vocals better through the T1 than I did through the Fishman into Analog but I don't know what the Fishman is doing to the signal. I can't help but to wonder if this digital stuff that sdelsolray described has something to do with me not liking my Aura pedals. Maybe too far off topic for this thread but would that add a third round of digital conversion to send the guitar to the Aura and the Aura to the T1? Hmmmm Matt |
#50
|
||||
|
||||
One thing to keep in mind is that virtually all the music you listen to on recordings, radio, etc, has endured more of these digital conversions than you can count, unless you still have old original vinyls and an analog playback system to go with them. So you have to ask yourself it it bothers you there.... Some will say yes, of course. I'm a fan of a good analog path myself, but in the end what matters is if it sounds good to you, no matter how you get there. These days if you refuse to use anything that is digital anywhere in the signal path, you're going to have pretty limited options.
__________________
Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Quote:
|
#52
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#53
|
||||
|
||||
I may be coming in a bit late on this, but I'll throw in my $0.02 anyway...
Specs are for engineers. Use your ears and your common sense -- They will lead you where you ultimately want to be. I've been using the Bose L1 with 2 B1 modules since November, 2005. Added the T1 tonematch module last summer. Gig with it a minimum of 2-3 times a month. Everything from coffee shops and Borders Books Stores, to backyard parties and large Farmers Markets in the Summer (Got out of the bar gig circus 25 years ago). If you take the time to: A) Understand how and why the Bose system is a different beast than the standard PA, and being heard is NOT synonymous with being LOUD; B) Read and understand the concept of gain staging, and; C) Adapt to the notion that your monitor is behind you, and you are hearing what the audience is hearing... ...Then you may come to quickly appreciate what the L1 has to offer. Great room coverage -- Plenty loud when it needs to be --, great quality audio, easy setup, compact package... Re: Digital Artifacts -- Maybe I'm missing something by using the original system as compared to the new Model II, but I've never heard digital artifacts in my audio -- Acoustic guitars, Electric guitars, Vocals, or an iPod -- All trough the T1 module. I do run a balanced TRS cable to input 3 on the power stand. If you're hearing artifacts, I would wonder whether you're using a Line 6 Pod (Those things have terrible artifacts). Re: Mixers & Efx with the L1 -- The original design of the system was for it to be used by individuals (Original name for it was the Personal Amplification System). I've used it successfully with two and three people playing through it. The key is Minimal Reverb and effects and taking a few minutes to set up accurate EQs if using a mixer. Again, take a few minutes for preparation, and you'll be happy with the results. I'm certainly not going to knock someone who feels they can hear a major quality difference between the L1 and other high end systems. All I can say is that since I've been using the Bose product, I'm getting more compliments, the audience sticks around longer and seems to be enjoying themselves, I'm getting invited back everywhere I play, and -- Most imprtantly -- I'm enjoying myself more onstage because I'm not fighting the sound system anymore... YMMV...
__________________
"Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything." - Plato | '02 814c Custom (Coco/Sitka) | '03 912ce Custom (Coco/Engelmann)| '06 K65ce | '17 J45 Std. | '10 Breedlove Revival OM DLX (EIR/Adi) | Lots of electrics... |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
What did you use before the L1, Gutch?
|
#55
|
|||
|
|||
I played last night through my L1 model II and T1 tonematch. The audience was a little thin and the room was really nice. The sound was fantastic, IMO. There was a guy in the audience who plays in the same place twice a month and he was commenting on how good it sounded.
I could hear myself so effortlessly and clearly that my singing and playing was much more nuanced. I will never go back. |
#56
|
|||
|
|||
A question the the Bose fans.
What is you benchmark against if you think Bose is "high end", be it home theater or live sound reinforcement? I am truly interested........thx.
__________________
Rich - rmyAddison Rich Macklin Soundclick Website http://www.youtube.com/rmyaddison Martin OM-18 Authentic '33 Adirondack/Mahogany Martin CS OM-28 Alpine/Madagascar Martin CS 00-42 Adirondack/Madagascar Martin OM-45TB (2005) Engelmann/Tasmanian Blackwood (#23 of 29) |
#57
|
||||
|
||||
Whatever was available. Primarily powered mixers with pair of small cabs. Primarily Yamaha, Peavey, Carver, Mackie. Had just gotten back into playing, so used house systems for a year or so before making the investment in my own system.
__________________
"Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything." - Plato | '02 814c Custom (Coco/Sitka) | '03 912ce Custom (Coco/Engelmann)| '06 K65ce | '17 J45 Std. | '10 Breedlove Revival OM DLX (EIR/Adi) | Lots of electrics... |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
Yuch. I bet some of them date back to the '80s. I'd take an L1 over that state of affairs any day of the week. Good move.
|
#59
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Same thing in performance audio. If you want to spend the money, there are better systems. My point is only that, for the money I wanted to spend, the Bose system provided the best sound in an innovative design that I happened to like. There are people who don't like Bose, just as there are people who don't particular brands of guitars. I could care less what other people are using -- The gear I'm using works for me and my audiences...
__________________
"Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything." - Plato | '02 814c Custom (Coco/Sitka) | '03 912ce Custom (Coco/Engelmann)| '06 K65ce | '17 J45 Std. | '10 Breedlove Revival OM DLX (EIR/Adi) | Lots of electrics... |
#60
|
|||
|
|||
What did you use, Cakes, before you got an L1?
|