The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Classical

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-22-2021, 06:56 AM
Cri75! Cri75! is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 32
Default Neck too narrow and maybe to thin; request advice

Hi folks,
I am a novice and I am studying primarily on nylon string guitars, so wide neck: 52mm (2.05 inch) or 50 mm (1.96 inches).
More or less a month ago I bought a pretty AMI Sigma guitar, it is an OM/OOO body with a 645mm (24.9 inches) scale length and 44.5mm (1 3/4) wide neck.
I love its sound, but I do not like the neck, is too thin and too narrow.... so now I am thinking to buy a guitar with the nut width of 46 mm (1 13/16 inch).
I have found a parlor guitar quite inexpensive (166 euro) that has 1 13/16 width nut, so I could try.
Maybe it is worth wait and buy a capo, tune the guitar half step-down and put the capo at the first fret, so I will have the nut width of 46mm (1 13/16 inch) and try if it suits me....maybe I can even leave the capo on permanently :-)
What do you suggest to me in this situation?
The optimum would be to buy a Furch with 00 body shape and 48mm (1.89 inches) neck width, but it is too expensive for now.
Thanks in advance for any advice/suggestion.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-22-2021, 07:36 AM
musicman1951 musicman1951 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 3,497
Default

I only played classical guitar for quite a few years and there was an adjustment when I went back to steel strings. Some players would call 1 3/4 too wide, so it's all relative.

The way I see it you have two choices:

1. Play the one you have for a while longer and see if it doesn't become comfortable.

2. Purchase a wider neck.

I suppose it cost you nothing to try the capo trick for a while, but either way comfort is a real thing. You will eventually need to become comfortable or seek it elsewhere.

If you're spending most of your time on the classical and a few minutes a day on the steel it will probably take a lot longer to get comfortable with a smaller neck. There are a few guitars out there with 1 7/8 nuts - I played a lovely Martin Koa.

A thought: I had some trouble becoming comfortable with a new piccolo trumpet when first purchased (essentially half the size of the usual trumpet). I didn't find success until I started thinking of it as a different instrument - not just a smaller version of my usual trumpet. You might try that with the steel string guitar - whole 'nother beast.
__________________
Keith
Martin 000-42 Marquis
Lowden S 50
Taylor Classical
Alvarez 12 String
Gibson ES345s
Fender P-Bass

Last edited by musicman1951; 02-22-2021 at 07:40 AM. Reason: addition
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-22-2021, 07:45 AM
Ray175 Ray175 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Near Paris, France
Posts: 256
Default

In the early years of playing many people feel uncomfortable moving from classical to flok and back because of the neck size and radius. The same applies to elevtrics wnere the radius canbe as tight as 7.5" as opposed to an almost flat classical neck or Martin at 16" or Gibson at 12".
My advice if you plan to venture into non-classical areas of guitar is to learn to accept and adjust - otherwise your choice of folk or electric guitars will be incredibly limited.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-22-2021, 07:47 AM
DCCougar DCCougar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 1,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cri75! View Post
What do you suggest to me in this situation?
Get used to it? I don't play nylon, so take my advice with a grain of salt. But 1.96 inches seems awfully wide. Nut width for steel stringed guitars is commonly 1.68 inches, and guys who want "more room" go to 1.75. As musicman suggests, try it for a while. You'll likely get used to it.
__________________
Cougar's Soundcloud page
2018 Guild F-512 Sunburst
2011 Guild F-50R Sunburst
2002 Guild JF30-12 Sunburst
2018 Gibson Songwriter Rosewood Burst Ltd. Ed. 12-string

1972 Epiphone FT-160 12-string
2012 Epiphone Dot CH

2010 Epiphone Les Paul Standard trans amber 

2013 Yamaha Motif XS7
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-22-2021, 08:06 AM
Cri75! Cri75! is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 32
Default

Thank you for all the precious advice.
I will keep playing my Sigma 1 3/4 wide neck for a while longer and I will see how it goes.
I do not have the intention to quit playing the (classical) nylon string guitar, I plan to play both kinds.
Maybe I will add a cheap parlor with a bit wider neck (1 13/16) only treat myself and have a campfire axe.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-22-2021, 12:38 PM
edcmat-l1 edcmat-l1 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 166
Default

At novice level I don't think I'd recommend switching back and forth between 2 guitar types with such drastically different necks and fret boards, specifically drastic differences in nut width. You aren't giving yourself time to develop the muscle memory for one size neck. I'd concentrate on that first. Master one or at least get very proficient at one before moving to another. This can add to the frustration of learning new skills.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-22-2021, 02:55 PM
KevinH's Avatar
KevinH KevinH is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 1,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cri75! View Post
...Maybe I will add a cheap parlor with a bit wider neck (1 13/16) only treat myself and have a campfire axe.
That sounds sensible. It will also give you a way to figure out what range of nut widths suit you best.
__________________
2020 Breedlove Premier Concertina
2020 Collings 02H
2019 Eastman E20 OM (Hyvibe'd)
2020 Furch LJ 10-CM
2020 Larrivee 00-40R
2005 Martin 00-18V
2019 Taylor 522ce
2019 Waterloo WL-S Deluxe
2020 Yamaha FS-TA TransAcoustic
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-24-2021, 08:35 AM
Cri75! Cri75! is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 32
Default

Hi to all,
After your precious comments, I decided to keep trying to adapt to my Sigma OOOM 18+.
Besides, I just ordered a cheap parlor guitar https://www.batonrougeguitars.com/gu...cc-151324.html that on the specs is what I like (shape and nut width). It is intended to be my campfire guitar and a benchmark to test the shape and dimensions (46mm nut width (1 13/16 of an inch). Total length 98 cm (38.58 inches with strap pin included), body length 49,5 cm (19.49 inches), lower bout 35,5 cm (13.98 inches), 12 fret joint.
Have a good one
Cristian

Last edited by Cri75!; 02-24-2021 at 08:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-24-2021, 08:39 AM
mawmow mawmow is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Quebec city, Qc, Canada
Posts: 1,354
Default

1,75" nut width is quite standard in the fingerstyle world (orchestra type body).

I once tried one notable exception : Gibson Keb'Mo (1,87" as I remember).

I recently read a message on this forum about another 1 13/16" nut width,
but did not remember the name, sorry.
__________________
Needed some nylons, a wide range of acoustics and some weirdos to be happy...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-24-2021, 09:44 AM
jaymarsch jaymarsch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: North of the Golden Gate, South of the Redwoods, East of the Pacific and West of the Sierras
Posts: 7,807
Default

Just curious, does your Sigma have a proper set up? That can make a surprising difference in playability and is not a costly investment.

Best,
Jayne
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-24-2021, 10:12 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cri75! View Post
Hi folks,
I am a novice and I am studying primarily on nylon string guitars, so wide neck: 52mm (2.05 inch) or 50 mm (1.96 inches).
More or less a month ago I bought a pretty AMI Sigma guitar, it is an OM/OOO body with a 645mm (24.9 inches) scale length and 44.5mm (1 3/4) wide neck.
I love its sound, but I do not like the neck, is too thin and too narrow.... so now I am thinking to buy a guitar with the nut width of 46 mm (1 13/16 inch).
I have found a parlor guitar quite inexpensive (166 euro) that has 1 13/16 width nut, so I could try.
Maybe it is worth wait and buy a capo, tune the guitar half step-down and put the capo at the first fret, so I will have the nut width of 46mm (1 13/16 inch) and try if it suits me....maybe I can even leave the capo on permanently :-)
What do you suggest to me in this situation?
The optimum would be to buy a Furch with 00 body shape and 48mm (1.89 inches) neck width, but it is too expensive for now.
Thanks in advance for any advice/suggestion.
Have you considered getting a nice crossover? You get to play your preferred nylon strings, but with a 1-7/8" radiused fretboard and some of the other features more associated with steel string guitars.

I have a Cordoba Orchestra Fusion that's a great instrument and was around $600 with deluxe hardshell case when new.

There are a few other manufacturers making similar crossovers. Taylor now has the very inexpensive Academy series nylon. You can go up the food chain from there, i.e. Kenny Hill, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-24-2021, 10:50 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: UK/EU
Posts: 18,283
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cri75! View Post
Hi folks,
I am a novice and I am studying primarily on nylon string guitars, so wide neck: 52mm (2.05 inch) or 50 mm (1.96 inches).
More or less a month ago I bought a pretty AMI Sigma guitar, it is an OM/OOO body with a 645mm (24.9 inches) scale length and 44.5mm (1 3/4) wide neck.
I love its sound, but I do not like the neck, is too thin and too narrow.... so now I am thinking to buy a guitar with the nut width of 46 mm (1 13/16 inch).
I have found a parlor guitar quite inexpensive (166 euro) that has 1 13/16 width nut, so I could try.
Maybe it is worth wait and buy a capo, tune the guitar half step-down and put the capo at the first fret, so I will have the nut width of 46mm (1 13/16 inch) and try if it suits me....maybe I can even leave the capo on permanently :-)
What do you suggest to me in this situation?
The optimum would be to buy a Furch with 00 body shape and 48mm (1.89 inches) neck width, but it is too expensive for now.
Thanks in advance for any advice/suggestion.
Hi, I feel your pain. For a long, long time flat top guitars were 12 frets to the body slotted headstocks and had wider fretboards than is common now.

Around the late '20s and early '30s there was a "perceived" radical change of use for the acoustic guitar, where, formally they were designed for fingerstyle use, much like and resembling the European or classical guitar, after the change of popular music, tenor or plectrum banjo players found it necessary to change to guitar, but they were accustomed to far longer and thinner necks with only four strings.

This change in popular music -kinda from Dixieland to Swing led builders like Gibson to perfect the archtop guitar to accomodate the music and musicians, however flat top builder -specifically Martin sought to follow this tend and turn their well favoured 12 fret designs to 14 frets with far thinn er necks -maybe expecting that guitarists would only be playing rhythm with three or four strings fretted.

The Martin flat top was never really a competitor for the archtops in swing/dance bands, but the folk and country music popularity was spreading fast due to radio and films and so the flat tops found favour as rhythm instruments for those genres.

Many found the thin necks with 1 & 11/16" , 1 & 3/4" (or even in the case of Epiphone guitars 1 & 5/8" Ok on which to chord and strum and even play fingerstyle, but they really weren't designed for fingerstyle.

Like most, it didn't even occur to me that there was a choice of fretboard dimensions until I was shown a Martin 12 fret dreadnought in the late '90s.

Your skills as a classical guitarist will prove challenged initially, by what I call "rhythm" necks (1 & 3/4" nut widths and smaller with thinner string spacing at the saddle.

Those older designs of guitars (prior to 1930ish) were usually 1 & 7/8" or 1 & 13/16" at the nut, but sadly after reintroducing them a few times, Martin has now abandoned their better designs.

I ramble on about this here : https://youtu.be/sNc25RLn77E

However, there are those who still produce them - with, mostly 1 & 13/16" nut widths.

At the higher levels - see Collings, and Santa Cruz, but whilst with still very high build quality the Chinese made brand "Eastman" makes fine "tributes" in the 00 and so called "parlour" models.

Whilst I have been playing Collings for over twenty years, I have recently purchased two Eastmans (a "P" and a "00") and been very impressed.

I suggest that you check them out here:
https://www.eastmanguitars.com/acoustic

These are the two that I have :



https://youtu.be/8WaP3dpulXI

and

https://youtu.be/C274kLswyAo

Hope that helps.
__________________
Silly Moustache,
Elderly singer, guitarist, dobrolist and mandolinist.

Hey folks, I'm now offering one to one lessons/meetings via Zoom! See: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=589058

https://www.youtube.com/user/SillyMoustache/videos
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-24-2021, 10:55 AM
Cri75! Cri75! is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymarsch View Post
Just curious, does your Sigma have a proper set up? That can make a surprising difference in playability and is not a costly investment.

Best,
Jayne

Hi, yes my Sigma is set up very fine. My concerns are only relate to the sensation when I use it. I have quite big hands and I like the feel of the classical guitar neck. By the way, lately I start to be more adapted to it, even though sometimes I would like it had at least a more chunky neck.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-24-2021, 11:03 AM
Cri75! Cri75! is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
Have you considered getting a nice crossover? You get to play your preferred nylon strings, but with a 1-7/8" radiused fretboard and some of the other features more associated with steel string guitars.
....
Thanks, but I like the 52 mm width and flat radius of my Alhambra.
I bought the Sigma (and now the Baton Rouge parlor) because I like the steel string guitar sound too.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-24-2021, 11:31 AM
Cri75! Cri75! is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
Hi, I feel your pain. For a long, long time flat top guitars were 12 frets to the body slotted headstocks and had wider fretboards than is common now.

Around the late '20s and early '30s there was a "perceived" radical change of use for the acoustic guitar, where, formally they were designed for fingerstyle use, much like and resembling the European or classical guitar, after the change of popular music, tenor or plectrum banjo players found it necessary to change to guitar, but they were accustomed to far longer and thinner necks with only four strings.

This change in popular music -kinda from Dixieland to Swing led builders like Gibson to perfect the archtop guitar to accomodate the music and musicians, however flat top builder -specifically Martin sought to follow this tend and turn their well favoured 12 fret designs to 14 frets with far thinn er necks -maybe expecting that guitarists would only be playing rhythm with three or four strings fretted.

The Martin flat top was never really a competitor for the archtops in swing/dance bands, but the folk and country music popularity was spreading fast due to radio and films and so the flat tops found favour as rhythm instruments for those genres.

Many found the thin necks with 1 & 11/16" , 1 & 3/4" (or even in the case of Epiphone guitars 1 & 5/8" Ok on which to chord and strum and even play fingerstyle, but they really weren't designed for fingerstyle.

Like most, it didn't even occur to me that there was a choice of fretboard dimensions until I was shown a Martin 12 fret dreadnought in the late '90s.

Your skills as a classical guitarist will prove challenged initially, by what I call "rhythm" necks (1 & 3/4" nut widths and smaller with thinner string spacing at the saddle.

Those older designs of guitars (prior to 1930ish) were usually 1 & 7/8" or 1 & 13/16" at the nut, but sadly after reintroducing them a few times, Martin has now abandoned their better designs.

I ramble on about this here : https://youtu.be/sNc25RLn77E

However, there are those who still produce them - with, mostly 1 & 13/16" nut widths.

At the higher levels - see Collings, and Santa Cruz, but whilst with still very high build quality the Chinese made brand "Eastman" makes fine "tributes" in the 00 and so called "parlour" models.

Whilst I have been playing Collings for over twenty years, I have recently purchased two Eastmans (a "P" and a "00") and been very impressed.

I suggest that you check them out here:
https://www.eastmanguitars.com/acoustic

These are the two that I have :



https://youtu.be/8WaP3dpulXI

and

https://youtu.be/C274kLswyAo

Hope that helps.

Hi,
Thanks for your reply. I agreed with it.
Yes I know your video, I am subscribed at your YouTube channel and I enjoy to watch your videos.
Yes my preferred steel string guitars are the one around 20s.
I am fingerstyle oriented.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Classical

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=