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Old 04-25-2018, 02:06 PM
piper_L piper_L is offline
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Default Walnut top characteristics?

I've been considering a guitar which is all walnut - back, sides, and top. I can find some discussions of walnut as a tonewood for the back and sides, but rarely for the top. Does anyone have some input on what to expect from a walnut top on an acoustic guitar?

Thanks for any information/opinions. I can't play this particular guitar without buying it and having it shipped -), so I'm trying to get as much information as I can before I decide whether to look at it or not.
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:21 PM
L20A L20A is offline
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I have only played one all walnut guitar.
It was a Taylor jumbo 12 string.
It was amazing!
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:30 PM
Rosewood99 Rosewood99 is offline
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AGF search is your friend

Once characteristic consensus from the thread is it would be a quieter guitar.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=350247

Last edited by Rosewood99; 04-25-2018 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:01 PM
seannx seannx is offline
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I played an all walnut Taylor 12 string a few years back at Bananas Music in San Rafael. Wonderful tone, and not at all quiet. Didn't have the funds to buy it at the time, but a friend who is an excellent guitarist did.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:05 PM
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Mr. Paul Mr. Paul is offline
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I played an all walnut J45 a couple weeks ago. It was a fun, fun guitar with a huge bottom end that seemed to come at the expense of the upper registers. I loved the rumble of that one. I would not describe it as "quiet."

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Old 04-25-2018, 03:20 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Piper, I’ve played quite a few all-walnut instruments, not only guitars but also mountain dulcimers. I’m originally from Missouri, mountain dulcimer was my first instrument, and in Missouri all-walnut dulcimers are by far and away the most common type that you’ll find there.

As a general rule of thumb any hardwood top will be quieter than a spruce or cedar top on a comparable instrument. The tone will generally be simpler with fewer overtones and less sustain. This can be musically advantageous in a number of different playing styles, especially fingerpicking styles where you have two or more lines going at the same time. There can be a lot of clarity with a hardwood top.

The usual downside is that there aren’t as many tone colors as you can pull out of a comparable guitar that has a spruce top. Hardwood tops generally aren’t as musically versatile, as a result.

But they can be very sweet-sounding, especially if you have a playing style that works well with a walnut top’s musical characteristics.

Hope that makes sense.


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Old 04-25-2018, 05:07 PM
Rosewood99 Rosewood99 is offline
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I should have said quieter not quiet. Also a miced video doesn't tell me much.
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Old 04-25-2018, 05:09 PM
mdshax mdshax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Paul View Post
I played an all walnut J45 a couple weeks ago. It was a fun, fun guitar with a huge bottom end that seemed to come at the expense of the upper registers. I loved the rumble of that one. I would not describe it as "quiet."

I so want to play one of these in person. He makes that sound incredible in this video.
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Old 04-25-2018, 07:57 PM
AZLiberty AZLiberty is offline
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I played a SCGC with a walnut top once.

Sounded a lot like a mahogany top, but quieter and less responsive.
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:10 PM
jrb715 jrb715 is offline
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The J-45 sounds spectacular: very different; and as he says direct. Not sure I'd have it as my only guitar, but would be happy to take one home that can sound like that--even if into a microphone.
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:14 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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I think as any guitar the way it is made can determine the sound as much as the wood. I built an all walnut a few years ago, a buddy did a quick demo for me with a handheld recorder. Nothing planned and a few rough spots. I think this link should work but you have to download it as it does not seem to want to play otherwise. I think he might have overladed the mic a time or two with too much of a dynamic range. Also because it is a single 0 size it will not have the bass response of the dred.

https://tnpgkg.by.files.1drv.com/y4m...ownload&psid=1
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:49 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
I think as any guitar the way it is made can determine the sound as much as the wood. [/url]
Hmmmmmm.....yes and no. Obviously the design of the guitar or dulcimer has a great deal to do with the sonic results you can get, and the same is true of how well the design is executed. But you're still dealing with some basic issues here, and it's hardly accidental that the vast majority of acoustic instruments have tops made from softwood conifers like spruce, cedar, redwood or larch. To get optimal tone, volume and projection, you need a top that combines light weight with great strength and cross grain stiffness. Which is what spruce, cedar, redwood and larch deliver.

Hardwood tops, whether walnut, koa, mahogany, sapele or others, usually have the strength and the cross grain stiffness, but they're denser than softwood tops. This has an impact on how loud the guitar is, how well it projects, and how many tone colors can be coaxed out of the finished instruments.

One of the main reasons guitar builders can even get ANY tonal results from hardwood tops is the amazing amount of energy that steel strings can impart to the instrument. Steel strings generate about three times as much tension and thus three times as much energy as nylon or gut strings are capable of generating.

Which is why steel string acoustic guitar designs can be so wildly and widely variable in the first place. The energy that steel strings transmit to the top makes all sorts of acoustic guitar designs and top materials possible in the first place.

Have you ever wondered why there are about a zillion different steel string acoustic guitar designs but only one commonly used body shape and size for nylon string guitars? It's because what we think of as the classical guitar shape (and its close cousin, the flamenco guitar) will only really WORK with the typical size and shape of the classical and flamenco guitar bodies. That's basically what you have to use with these relatively low energy nylon strings.

In startling contrast, you can make all SORTS of guitar body shapes and sizes when you use steel strings, because when compared to nylon strings they have energy to BURN...

Which is really the only thing that actually makes hardwood-topped acoustic guitars even possible: the energy that steel strings can transmit.

Which is why you won't find any classical guitars with walnut or mahogany tops. Nylon strings will not and really cannot drive those tops efficiently, it's that simple.

So the woods actually have a great deal to do with the sort of sounds you can get from a guitar.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller
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Old 04-26-2018, 05:20 AM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post

Have you ever wondered why there are about a zillion different steel string acoustic guitar designs but only one commonly used body shape and size for nylon string guitars? It's because what we think of as the classical guitar shape (and its close cousin, the flamenco guitar) will only really WORK with the typical size and shape of the classical and flamenco guitar bodies. That's basically what you have to use with these relatively low energy nylon strings.


Wade Hampton Miller
I have wondered about this before and am not sure I agree (which is not to be taken as disagreeing). Classical players are extremely tradition conscious and if a classical guitar were shaped 'wrong", they would tend to not buy it, which of course makers would notice and not make that mistake again.

Think also of "crossover" guitars, which are built like any steel string but use nylon strings. They may appear in various shapes and designs, just like steel strings do. I have not seen a crossover that looks like a classical; it wouldn't be a crossever if it did.
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Old 04-26-2018, 07:57 AM
piper_L piper_L is offline
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Thanks to all for your info about walnut on guitars! I'd read through some of the previous threads, and I appreciate Wade's informed input. I'm thinking I'll pass on this one - I play a lutz/EIR guitar and one of my pleasures in it is all the lush overtones you get. I suspect I'd miss that on a hardwood walnut top (the mahogany-topped guitars I've played haven't been to my taste).

Thanks again!
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:23 AM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Bard, I used to think that it was hidebound traditionalists keeping the shape of classical guitars the same, but a friend of mine who builds both steel string and nylon string guitars gave me the explanation that I parroted in my last post. There’s less loyalty among classical guitarists towards that traditional shape than there is a realization that that’s the shape that works best in a non-miced concert hall.

Crossover nylon string guitars are an exception, as you pointed out, and there are a few others. But those guitars often have onboard electronics, so they don’t need to be as efficient and projective in purely acoustic settings.

Hope that makes more sense.


Wade Hampton Miller
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