Does wireless system degrade tone?

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by Daniel Grenier

I use a mid-level 5.8G and yes, my tone is better with a cable but not "better enough" to not use a wireless system. Cables out of a guitar really are a nuisance - especially if you tend to walk around when playing - and I am thankful to be able to get rid of it for a vey small price to pay in tone "degradation" (which, to me, is actually rather minor and somewhat fixable w/EQ).

Same here. I like the freedom to being able to 'walk around' so the very slight degradation in tone is not an issue for me. Back when we gigged I'd use a cord mostly anyway since I wasn't able to walk around but if I'm playing an open mic or an outdoor gig or party then I like to be wireless. And home I'm definitely wireless so I can move around. I'm one of those guys that apparently walks in circles while I'm practicing because after a while I have to circle back the other way to unwind if I'm using a cord! Just like when I was a teenage and I'd have to do the same with the long phone cord. Yes, I'm that old. I lived in a time when phones were fixed to a wall and had cord!!!

[Villamarzia]

Thinking about it, I can get a better tone for my audience when playing wirelessly. That’s because, in small gigs where you do your own sound, I can walk in front of the stage and listen to my sound, and eventually adjust it. Can’t do it wired. So, just for the sake of theories, I get a better tone with a wireless system.

[hotroad]

I cannot hear any change of tone when i go wireless. Easy peasy!

[shufflebeat]

With the company's permission I'd like to qualify my original position, by approx 180⁰, frequency response is not the issue, transient response is.

This will affect some things more that others but if I were asked to design a mechanism for illustrating the issue I would invent the steel string acoustic guitar and play it with a pick.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz_Ag8pEUJ4

Dave Rat on wireless IEMs, same (similar) technology to wireless guitar systems.

[TedBPhx]

My Boss WL20 has the added capacitance to emulate a cable. I can’t hear the difference. Boss also offers the WL20s for acoustics. It does not have the cable emulation and claims to pass through more high frequencies.

So, Boss claims if it sounds like a cable it’s wrong for acoustics.

[doublescale1]

I have a Line6 G50 wireless unit - I use it for my electric guitars and have used it with my acoustic guitars - I can't tell a difference between the G50 and a hard wire cord. The guitars sounded great through the PA either way. I also find the wireless to be more advantageous when on a small cramped stage - less spaghetti on the smaller floor - hard cords on a bigger stage work fine as they have since the inception of amplified guitars.

[Lost Sheep]

My current fantasy dream is to go to an open mic, plop my pedal board down on stage, hand the person operating the house PA two dongles/receivers, one for guitar and one for voice and go right into sound check and performance.

To do this, I need my headworn wirelss mic and wireless guitar transmitter feeding receivers plugged into my harmonizer (and any other pedals I use) and the ultimate outputs going to transmitters matching the receiver/dongles I handed to the PA. I have that now....almost.

I have got the setup almost performance-ready except for the signal from my pedal board to the PA. I cannot afford a high-end XLR-based microphone plug-in transmitter, so convert the male XLR output of the harmonizer to 1/4" plug to use a guitar transmitter, and do a similar conversion at the PA from 1/4" to XLR. This works but introduces an unacceptable whine. Higher pitched than the 60-cycle hum, but lower than static noise. It could be impedance mis-match or something else, but my electrical knowledge has just hit its limit.

My budget for something like the Sennheiser XSW-D XLR Base Set Portable Wireless System has also hit its limit and the $100 ones all seem to have reviews that mention having hiss.

Sketchy details of the board are here:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=607501

Thanks for reading.

Lost Sheep

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by Lost Sheep

My current fantasy dream is to go to an open mic, plop my pedal board down on stage, hand the person operating the house PA two dongles/receivers, one for guitar and one for voice and go right into sound check and performance.

I really think you're making life unnecessarily difficult for yourself and others by reinventing the wheel.

#1 priority for any decent soundtech is to become an invisible link between artist and audience and this should be the same for the machinery involved. The technology has evolved over time into a mature, reliable system which, in an ideal world, provides a platform for the artist to do his/her thing and have that conveyed to the (hopefully) paying public. Anything that gets in the way is to be avoided and to be deliberately obstructive seems a little self-indulgent.

If you're leaping round an arena I can understand the quest for cable-freedom but that's an expensive game to play well, otherwise hunt out the Shure podcast on the topic of wireless mics and you'll quickly understand why there needs to be a good reason for losing the cables.

For the record I'm not resistant to the technology per se, I have wireless mics for when I soundtech events and wireless systems for when I play guitar but I know their limitations and choose my tools carefully on any given night.

[Lost Sheep]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

I really think you're making life unnecessarily difficult for yourself and others by reinventing the wheel.
For the record I'm not resistant to the technology per se, I have wireless mics for when I soundtech events and wireless systems for when I play guitar but I know their limitations and choose my tools carefully on any given night.

I don't mind difficulties at home if it makes getting on and off the stage simpler.

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

#1 priority for any decent soundtech is to become an invisible link between artist and audience and this should be the same for the machinery involved. The technology has evolved over time into a mature, reliable system which, in an ideal world, provides a platform for the artist to do his/her thing and have that conveyed to the (hopefully) paying public. Anything that gets in the way is to be avoided and to be deliberately obstructive seems a little self-indulgent.

The people operating the PAs at most of the open mics I visit are themselves performers in those venues, so are sensitive to the performance and do their best to insert themselves into the performance to enhance the whole experience while (as you point out) remaining as invisible as possible.

I plead guilty to self-indulgence. Innocent of deliberately obstructive (though my self-indulgence does sometimes cross over to obstruction - I am not unfamiliar with self-sabotage -but that is not deliberate.)

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

If you're leaping round an arena I can understand the quest for cable-freedom but that's an expensive game to play well, otherwise hunt out the Shure podcast on the topic of wireless mics and you'll quickly understand why there needs to be a good reason for losing the cables.

Yep, it can be expensive. So, I have cobbled together inexpensive components. They all work well except for the last segment of the voice channel.

I don't wander off-stage, but the convenience of getting on and off quickly appeals. Before I decided to add a stomp box and harmonizer, getting up on stage was pretty simple. I climb up, set my lead sheets up (on a computer screen now) while the PA guy/gal plugs my guitar in and I sidle up to the venue's microphone. Adding cables to let me use my own mic and pedal board makes getting on stage more difficult, which I seek to simplify. That is the "good reason" for losing the cables. Then, I went overboard (self-indulgent) by seeking the ultimate-no cables at all! If that proves impractical or unaffordable, so be it. But I am enjoying the hunt and would enjoy it immensely if I succeeded.

I am having a hard time finding Shure's podcast. Do you have a web address? A search for "Shure" and "Podcast" produces SO many links.

I appreciate your thoughts. I do need to rebalance my imagination with reality periodically. Thanks.

Here is an example of one setup that would do: Dead simple, but does not allow the PA to do much and does not allow for any stomp boxes. And, yes, it is self indulgent, but fun.

Joyo made a wireless guitar transmitter-receiver pair. I bought two and gave one to my Brother. It worked great for him at home, but in his band at Church, he got interference. After I bought them, I noticed there was a microphone input on the side and the unit actually combines the voice and guitar feeds into one. I could get up on stage, hand the receiver to the PA and start playing. The PA cannot balance the two volumes, though, so it is up to me on stage.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by Lost Sheep

I am having a hard time finding Shure's podcast. Do you have a web address? A search for "Shure" and "Podcast" produces SO many links.

https://www.shure.com/en-US/performa...ireless-system

There is always a danger that we "system build" as a self-distraction technique rather than work on our content (material, performance). This may not be what you're doing but it really sounds like it is.

[Lost Sheep]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

https://www.shure.com/en-US/performa...ireless-system

There is always a danger that we "system build" as a self-distraction technique rather than work on our content (material, performance). This may not be what you're doing but it really sounds like it is.

You have hit the nail on the head. I confess.
In my "defense", it is not not stupidest thing I have ever done. (or probably ever will do)

Also in my defense, I will not subject my audience to it until it works perfectly and is 100% reliable.

I appreciate your candor. And your perceptiveness. You would be a good mentor to any up-and-coming performer, I think.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by Lost Sheep

...it is not not stupidest thing I have ever done. (or probably ever will do)

In the interests of full disclosure I should also confess that if I know something is a bad idea it's usually because I've tried it, sometimes repeatedly.

[varmonter]

ive only used 2 different wireless
systems a line6 and the xvive.
neither sounded like they effected tone. I honestly couldnt tell the difference between the wireless and
my mogami cable. used them
on guitar and mandolin.
i probably wouldnt record with
one but for a live gig there was no
dicernable difference to me.
but i use passive pickups.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by varmonter

ive only used 2 different wireless
systems a line6 and the xvive.
neither sounded like they effected tone. I honestly couldnt tell the difference between the wireless and
my mogami cable. used them
on guitar and mandolin.

Sounds like compelling evidence.

Further reading would suggest that different systems (including pickup/transmitter combinations) will be subject to a variety of forms of interference. If you/I have a combination that works then that's as far as we need to explore but keep a cable handy as environmental pressures may vary.

[Lost Sheep]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

Sounds like compelling evidence.

Further reading would suggest that different systems (including pickup/transmitter combinations) will be subject to a variety of forms of interference. If you/I have a combination that works then that's as far as we need to explore but keep a cable handy as environmental pressures may vary.

Absolutely. Nothing worse than being on-stage while technical problems keep "dead air" for the audience.

Fortunately (or sadly), my audiences are so small that it would be possible to go without amplification (at least until my lungs gave out) for portions of my repertoire.

I was in the audience at a Hobo Jim performance, when the house PA failed. He simply went out to his vehicle and brought in a Fishman SA220 and cranked back up. Took maybe 2-3 minutes. He was completely unfazed (I imagine, with his background, he dealt with much worse scenarios). Where I was sitting, it sounded just as good.