Pickup Selection...going crazy!!

Mike G · #1 12-03-2001, 10:30 AM

I have a '96 Rosewood/Spruce 714 and need to install a pickup system and the selection is too good to make up my mind. There are pros and cons to each system and I can't decide. Therefore, I ask you Taylor fans for your advice. Here goes...

Although I love the rich tone of my 714 for fingerstyle and some other flatpicking, I am finding that it is sometimes not appropriate for the more contemporary praise and worship music. I would like to install a system that will allow my 714 to sound more mahogany like...that is airy and bright with more sparkle. Is is possible?

Here's where I've been.

First choice: Baggs i-Beam. Pros are good tone, very natural. Cons are that it can be too sensitive and I have a very aggressive flatpicking/strumming technique complete with thumping and percussive playing. The i-Beam my be too sensitive for that. Second choice... Baggs Dual Source. I don't like the ideal of putting the preamp in the guitar but can get over it if it gets the sound I want. However, I'm not convince I like the condensor mic in the guitar. It may enhance the strong bass that I am trying to deemphasize and be counter productive. Mics can sometimes sound too "hooty". Third and current choice. Get a Baggs Ribbon Transducer and call it a day thus ending my obsession.

I am hoping that someone out there can offer up an idea that will support my quest for the desired contemporary praise and worship tone.

Thanks and best to all,
Mike

jerome · #2 12-03-2001, 04:16 PM

Hmm...I'd go with the piezo for the sound that you described--in my mind, the piezos have that over exaggerated quacky bright tone that doesn't sound anything like the guitar, but cuts through really well.

gmyoung · #3 12-03-2001, 04:34 PM

Mike,
I have a 714 with the K&K system in it. It uses three transducers under the bridge and an internal mic. The pre-amp is external and comes with a belt clip. I use a 15-foot stereo cable and clip the pre-amp to my music stand. I think the sound is great! It is easy to adjust the mix of the two signals depending on what sound you want. The only modification to the guitar is increase the size of the hole for the end pin jack. The main draw back is that the EQ is inside the pre-amp. It won't get bumped this way, but it doesn't lend itself to quick adjustment.
Good Luck!

Mike G · #4 12-03-2001, 05:03 PM

Thanks for the responses. I have a couple of general follow up questions.

1- Forgive my ignorance here but I've never had a piezo. As it senses vibration, does it really matter what type of woods you have? I mean, how can tonewood vary the sound if it is only sensing string vibration? I also thought the Baggs Ribbon Tranducer was different than your run of the mill piezo, ala matrix? Is that true?

2- The KK systems looks viable. Does anyone know how the 3 transducers will sound on their own...that is without the mic?.

Thanks again.
Mike

Admiral · #5 12-03-2001, 08:48 PM

hey Mike G;
based on your 3 choices you could go with the dual source. Remember with the dual source you can dial out the mic if you like using the remote control device attached to the sound hole. That way you really get option 2 and 3. If you set it up in stereo mode you can have only mic, only ribbon or a infinite combination of the two. I always played with it in mono mode where the ribbon was always on and I just dialed in how much mic I wanted. The mic is the thing that makes the amplification sound like a real acoustic guitar. I don't think piezo accomplish that at all. The LRBaggs ribbon is different but similiar to a piezo. Yet just the ribbon or piezo will certainly cut through the mix as they say. And if your playing with a large group then the true sound of an acoustic guitar is not noticed anyway. But if you play solo or duet it certainly will be. I had a dual source in my 810 and loved it. I'm thinking of putting an iBeam in my new K14C though.

I hope this helps.

Mike G · #6 12-03-2001, 09:19 PM

Hi Admiral...again:

Good thought on the Dual source. Sounds like the most flexible option. The i-Beam sounds wonderful but I'm truely concerned that it is too sensitive for my aggressive playing and feedback. How is the Dual Source with feedback and aggessive strumming? Is it overly sensitive? Eventually I will pick up a Para Acoustic DI as well.

trivial · #7 12-04-2001, 01:47 AM

the k&k without the mic would be the pure westerm...I have one installed in my 710ltd...I did a review for it under the thread "pickup review"

PaulLePine · #8 12-04-2001, 11:41 AM

Don't want to muddy the issue, but what the heck...

Just read on the 13thfret forum that Pick Up The World is almost ready with a new "Air Core" pickup. Someone just posted an incredibly positive preview of it blended with a #27 SBT. Looks like for now it's $120 and built to order.

Their #27 soundboard transducer has been well-regarded along with the K&K and B-band systems. This sounds even better.

PUTW website

Review of AirCore + #27 blend with Baggs Dual Source preamp

The inventor gives details on the AirCore

I don't have any money, but if I did, I think I'd take a chance on this config. Especially since I have the Dual Source already, so it would just be swapping transducer elements.

Oh, and if/when I do get around to ordering an AirCore, I'll probably get a truss rod cover while I'm at it!

PUTW truss rod covers

Mike G · #9 12-04-2001, 11:59 AM

Paul:

Thanks for the heads up. The only negative thing I heard about the PUTW is that it hums. Anyone else experience that? I will certainly read the links you sent though...it is an viable option. I saw you pics. Where is the Dual Source preamp mounted in you 714? I have a 714 as well...how is the sound? Can you go from warm for fingerstyle to that contemporary piezo sound if need be by useing the remote control. How effective is the remote control?. Thanks again...Mike

DMZ · #10 12-04-2001, 03:18 PM

Read my review in the other post about PUTW #27. These do not hum if you mount them properly, that is, seated flat against the bridgeplate-which is easy to do. These can be installed in minutes by you and not a luthier with no modification to your Taylor. My 2nd PUTW is on the way for my K14c as we speak. You have to have a pre-amp. Peel, stick, plug in and play-you won't believe the sound.

Mike G · #11 12-04-2001, 05:18 PM

DMZ:

I am very interested in exploring the PUTW #27. I would probably get the LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI or another Preamp instead of the PUTW preamp as I want more tone shaping ability.

Thanks alot...
Mike

DMZ · #12 12-04-2001, 07:04 PM

PUTW speaks highly of the LR Baggs pre amp with the #27. I use a Fishman Platinum Pro EQ and it works great. It's amazing but you run these flat on eq...no coloration is needed. Just your guitar's natural sound- only amp'd. For less than $100 - try on. The rest of the community will be catching up. The first one I got direct at PUTW. The 2nd thru Shoreline Acoustic music for less $. www.samusic.com. They're all over the web now.

Mike G · #13 12-04-2001, 09:51 PM

DMZ:

Thanks again... I'm getting excited now. I spoke with our local Luthier and he just installed his first #27 and raved about it. Now I will decide on a preamp and away I go.

Best,
Mike

Admiral · #14 12-05-2001, 09:52 PM

Hey DMZ, thanks for the Shoreline url. I just went there and bought a Shubb partial capo. I've been meaning to buy one of those and forgot where I had seen them. Shoreline's no shipping cost is great.
Anyway, I asked John about PUTW #27. It sounds competitive with the iBeam. I told John that I picked up his url on the taylorforum and he asked for the guys name. I told him "DMZ" and he translated it right off the bat. Of course I don't know if he was right or not but it seemed to match. Sounds like he remembers you. Anyway he says "thanks" for the promo.
The PUTW web site has some cool samples to listen to but the #4 at the top using the PUTW #27 doesn't sound so great to me. I like #1 (which is undisclosed what it used for amplifying) and #3 which uses the external AKG C1000s mic.
What are you thoughts about those samples?
thanks,

DMZ · #15 12-06-2001, 12:04 PM

I really liked what I heard in the #27 of those samples. I was maybe more impressed by the Lady artist whose samples are on the web site in which she emulates the style of M. Hedges. I beleive she uses A Taylor 510?? I was blown away. This tone, "sound" thing is just so personal isn't it? I remember giving a friend a listen to those samples on PUTW. He liked a different one than I did(#27). The more I get into this live play, sound thing. It just is endless. Change a monitor, EQ this, move that. Bring up the vocals, bring down the bass, mid, etc.-- compress whatever, ...ugh!!! I couldn't believe people wanted to record the different Taylor models recently to "hear" the difference. Sure---TRY THAT. Ever recorded??? There are only about 9 gillion variations in the subtlety of sound when recording a guitar. I like the simplicity, natural sound and cost of the #27 though. I will never tolerate the quack of a fishman piezo ever again no matter what I install in future applications. Next month or so, if Taylor announces their supposed pickup system, that might be "the next thing"- who knows. And cool for all of us if it is. I'd check one out. Gee, I guess I just went on the soapbox a little. It's a good product. Consult the Harmony Centaral reviews and Acoustic Guitar Magazine Forum for more info. Hope I didn't violate a rule for mentioning those sites. Sorry if I did.