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  #16  
Old 06-07-2019, 07:36 AM
KevWind KevWind is offline
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
I wonder if they'll be offering some special financing for this ...something beyond the 48 months/no interest deals that show up for high end gear.
Good question. Do you mean Apple themselves ?


As usual this announcement has caused debate and the usual complaints of price BUT
I just found this interesting article about a comparable PC pricing and it appears that the Mac is not really all that overpriced when you factor in all of the design elements and component specs and upgrade potential .
https://www.digitaltrends.com/comput...ro-cost-as-pc/
But the problem is it's really hard to factor all the elements to get and exact direct comparison. But it appears that for total specs , features and upgrade options that the Mac is at a fairly competitive price . And that while in some specific single design elements you can save some money with a PC . in overall total spec for spec, feature for feature, and total upgrade potential, you are going to be close,-at,- or even more, for an equivalent PC

The one advantage of PC is depending on exact needs you configure and to upspec certain elements but then leave out elements or downspec elements you do not really need .
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  #17  
Old 06-07-2019, 09:28 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Good question. Do you mean Apple themselves ?
Yes. Anytime you see a deal for zero percent financing, the avoided interest is being paid by someone other than the lending institution, so the seller or the manufacturer.

The problem Apple will have with this new computer is that it freezes many of us out due to price. With a base price of $6k, by the time you upgrade the system with additional cores, ram, and storage, you're likely looking at $10k or higher. With 48 months no interest financing, that pushes your payment to over $200 a month. I'm guessing, but I think that payment is too high for a lot of customers who might want to buy this computer. If Apple offers 72 months zero interest financing, that brings the cost to under $140 a month and it doesn't quite feel like you're making a car payment anymore.

I'm not sure I'm a buyer for this new computer. I bought a new iMac two years ago. I bought it with the best processor they offered at the time and 32gb of ram. It's adequate for what I do but if I have too many VSTs running, it complains by stopping playback occasionally. Right now that doesn't bother me too much. Restarting playback usually makes the problem go away so it's not a huge inconvenience. But there's no guarantee things keep working this well.

Currently, the most common ITB instruments I run are Superior Drummer 3, Pianoteq, and Trillian Bass. There's no doubt that down the road better software will emerge that will be more cpu intensive and that's what will likely make me consider upgrading my computer. Prior to the iMac, my two previous studio computers were Mac Pros. The thing I dislike about the iMac is that it makes my work area messy with peripherals. I have a box that holds additional harddrives, a cd drive, a back up drive, and a powered usb hub taking up space in front of me. I didn't need all that with my last Mac Pro. Plus with the Mac Pro, the computer could sit out of the way with just the monitor, the mouse, and the keyboard on the desk. Now I have the entire computer system on my desk with a whole bunch of cables hanging off the back and I'm limited to the 27" monitor unless I want to run a second monitor (I used a 32" monitor with my Mac Pro).

I miss my old setup but when I was shopping for a new computer, the trash can version of the Mac Pro seemed like a worse option.

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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
As usual this announcement has caused debate and the usual complaints of price BUT
I just found this interesting article about a comparable PC pricing and it appears that the Mac is not really all that overpriced when you factor in all of the design elements and component specs and upgrade potential .
https://www.digitaltrends.com/comput...ro-cost-as-pc/
But the problem is it's really hard to factor all the elements to get and exact direct comparison. But it appears that for total specs , features and upgrade options that the Mac is at a fairly competitive price . And that while in some specific single design elements you can save some money with a PC . in overall total spec for spec, feature for feature, and total upgrade potential, you are going to be close,-at,- or even more, for an equivalent PC

The one advantage of PC is depending on exact needs you configure and to upspec certain elements but then leave out elements or downspec elements you do not really need .
I understand that there's a lot of bang for the buck with this computer, but in some cases it's more bang that needed (for example, I don't need 8 PCIe slots). When the news first came out that the new Mac Pro would be modular, I think a lot of us (certainly myself) thought that might be a way to keep the price down because you wouldn't have to buy what you didn't need. It doesn't look like that's the case.
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  #18  
Old 06-07-2019, 01:21 PM
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…The problem Apple will have with this new computer is that it freezes many of us out due to price.
Hi jim1060

I could be wrong, but I don't think Apple will have problems selling these computers. I don't perceive Apple is trying to freeze anyone out…

I think they are going after the independent film industry, and video/audio production houses.

Even a moderately priced, well edited corporate video can bring in $5,000 - $7,000 per project, and it wouldn't take many of those to pay for the computer. They are being shot on cameras which cost $35-50K each. Network and Cable produced TV shows, and reality shows have up to $10 million an episode budgets. They wouldn't even blink at a $45,000 computer workstation.

For the rest of us with smaller projects and agendas who need above average power, there is the iMacPro. Souped up to a $10,100 level (18 cores, and 128GB memory, Radeon Pro Vega 64X with 16GB of HBM2 memory) it will likely be capable of similar performance as the base model of the new MacPro.



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  #19  
Old 06-07-2019, 03:08 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
[size=2]Hi jim1060

I could be wrong, but I don't think Apple will have problems selling these computers. I don't perceive Apple is trying to freeze anyone out…
I'm not saying that's their intention but rather that will be the result of the price tag. For reasons I've already mentioned, I'd prefer a Mac Pro to an iMac Pro, but they may have priced me out of that market.

I misspoke earlier when I said my two previous computers were Mac Pros. The first was the G4, the forerunner to the Mac Pro, then I upgraded to the cheese-grater Mac Pro 7 or 8 years later, and then to the iMac I currently have.

At any rate, since my current computer is only a couple of years old, this is not a concern at the moment. I'm probably safe for at least another 3 or 4 years.
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  #20  
Old 06-07-2019, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
I'm not saying that's their intention but rather that will be the result of the price tag. For reasons I've already mentioned, I'd prefer a Mac Pro to an iMac Pro, but they may have priced me out of that market.

I misspoke earlier when I said my two previous computers were Mac Pros. The first was the G4, the forerunner to the Mac Pro, then I upgraded to the cheese-grater Mac Pro 7 or 8 years later, and then to the iMac I currently have.

At any rate, since my current computer is only a couple of years old, this is not a concern at the moment. I'm probably safe for at least another 3 or 4 years.
Hi Jim

I love progress, because it trickles down. My current iMac so outperforms any other Mac I've owned…as each of them did compared to their predecessors when they resided in our home.

When a company produces super high end gear, many of the features eventually trickle down to the 'street machines'.

At age 70½, any new computers will be because one fails, or sheer vanity.

I'm raising up a media team at our church, and then I'm just coaching from the sideline. I'll spend my time editing fun little personal video projects, and my grandkid's projects.



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  #21  
Old 06-07-2019, 08:06 PM
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My oldest son and his partner have a very successful video production company. He told me today that the new Mac Pro is made for the work they do. For their needs, he estimates that the cost will be 10-12,000. They will be retiring their cheese grater Macs. The time saved and efficiency make it well worth the investment, and essential for maximizing productivity. There’s a good reason it’s called the Mac Pro, and it’s the configuration they’re been waiting for.
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  #22  
Old 06-07-2019, 09:44 PM
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Cocobolo Kid Cocobolo Kid is offline
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It's too bad that Apple has only one base model of the new Mac Pro. Most people in the music recording industry don't need quad video card capability, 8 PCIe expansion slots or 12 memory (DIMM) slots capable of holding 1.5 terabytes of RAM. The extra PCIe slots are made even more unnecessary because there are inexpensive, external Thunderbolt breakout boxes that can house multiple PCIe cards. The motherboard in the new Mac Pro is definitely a server class board. It's too bad that Apple didn't come out with a more moderately spec'd Mac Pro model that used a more mainstream, but high performance motherboard (one with 4 or 8 DIMM slots and 4 PCIe slots).
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  #23  
Old 06-08-2019, 08:18 AM
KevWind KevWind is offline
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Originally Posted by Cocobolo Kid View Post
It's too bad that Apple has only one base model of the new Mac Pro. Most people in the music recording industry don't need quad video card capability, 8 PCIe expansion slots or 12 memory (DIMM) slots capable of holding 1.5 terabytes of RAM. The extra PCIe slots are made even more unnecessary because there are inexpensive, external Thunderbolt breakout boxes that can house multiple PCIe cards. The motherboard in the new Mac Pro is definitely a server class board. It's too bad that Apple didn't come out with a more moderately spec'd Mac Pro model that used a more mainstream, but high performance motherboard (one with 4 or 8 DIMM slots and 4 PCIe slots).
I agree in principle with some of this. And I also would like to see more configuration options (downward on some features upward on others ) Perhaps in the future ?
Personally I also would like to see a base machine with something like 4- 6 PCIe slots and 64 or 128 GB RAM
And perhaps a bit a more powerful base Video Card.

I agree with Larry I think Apple will sell them. For one while definitely pricey, the flip side is it is likely to be a machine that will easily be a 5 to 10 + year capable unit for those willing to invest.

In Jan of 2011 when I bought my Mid 2010 3.33 Gz Westmere Mac Pro it was also very pricey $3600 and the 27" Apple Display was $950 But I was upgrading to Pro Tools HD Native (from LE) and needed PCIe slots for that and decided to get the most machine I could afford.
Since then I have upgraded the RAM to 24 GB (third party) from 8 GB factory installed, and upgraded the Boot drive to a Samsung 951 SSD PCIe drive.
And now I will be getting a Sapphire Radeon Pulse RX 580 8GB Graphics card (which will make me Mojave capable) and where I will likely stay for the next 3- 5 years....So if it indeed lasts another 3-5 years that will be an 11 to 14 years of service, on one machine.
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  #24  
Old 06-08-2019, 10:00 AM
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…It's too bad that Apple didn't come out with a more moderately spec'd Mac Pro model that used a more mainstream, but high performance motherboard (one with 4 or 8 DIMM slots and 4 PCIe slots).
Hi CK

Have you looked at the iMac Pro? It's essentially what you were asking for…without PCIe slots.



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  #25  
Old 06-08-2019, 02:42 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cocobolo Kid View Post
It's too bad that Apple has only one base model of the new Mac Pro. Most people in the music recording industry don't need quad video card capability, 8 PCIe expansion slots or 12 memory (DIMM) slots capable of holding 1.5 terabytes of RAM. The extra PCIe slots are made even more unnecessary because there are inexpensive, external Thunderbolt breakout boxes that can house multiple PCIe cards. The motherboard in the new Mac Pro is definitely a server class board. It's too bad that Apple didn't come out with a more moderately spec'd Mac Pro model that used a more mainstream, but high performance motherboard (one with 4 or 8 DIMM slots and 4 PCIe slots).
I agree. Apple no longer offers a non-iMac design desktop for those of us who aren't doing video. I had to settle when I purchased my current iMac and it appears that may be the case permanently as we go forward or I'd have to choose to overpay for a computer with specs I don't need. I'm not thrilled about that prospect.
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  #26  
Old 06-08-2019, 03:13 PM
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I agree. Apple no longer offers a non-iMac design desktop for those of us who aren't doing video.
Hi jim

You don't think the Mini fits non-iMac design for desktop? I used one as my desktop for 5 years with an external monitor.

The new mini has tons of connect-ability options, and is pretty easy to add your own ram or drives to.



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  #27  
Old 06-08-2019, 06:47 PM
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Hi jim

You don't think the Mini fits non-iMac design for desktop? I used one as my desktop for 5 years with an external monitor.

The new mini has tons of connect-ability options, and is pretty easy to add your own ram or drives to.
A friend of mine has one and I'm pretty sure it only holds two internal drives, unless I misunderstood him. He bought it to use in conjunction with his iMac specifically to run orchestral vst sessions. And it wasn't all that quick and easy to add that second drive. Plus, on the 2014 model you couldn't upgrade the internal storage, all you could do was add to it. Nor could you upgrade the ram.

Adding that ssd drive looks like a huge pain in the hind quarters compared to adding an ssd drive to my old Mac Pro. I currently have 3 1TB ssd drives connected to my iMac in addition to the .5 ssd internal drive. Two of those are for sound libraries and I'll be adding another 1TB drive to that pretty soon. The mini is too limited for me and leaves me much of the same complaints as I have about the iMac.

I don't know how many folks are going fall in the new iMac-Mac Pro middle ground like I do but I expect it's a fair amount. Perhaps by the time I'm ready to consider it, the inbetween option will be there.
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  #28  
Old 06-09-2019, 09:53 PM
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I don't know how many folks are going fall in the new iMac-Mac Pro middle ground like I do but I expect it's a fair amount. Perhaps by the time I'm ready to consider it, the inbetween option will be there.
Hi jim

I think you are right - changing the SSD would be a pain.

I use external SSDs for editing video on my iMac, and they are as fast as using an internal drive. My projects can be then edited on the iMac or my MacBook Pro. I'd have no hesitation just working the same way from a Mac Mini.

Having the system (internal) drive run the software, and the SSD handle the files is a quick and easy process. Using external SSDs for work drives has sped up my life with video editing.

It's great to have lots of options. With the upgrade to the MacMini, and the addition of the iMac Pro and the Mac Pro, we certainly have far more options in 2019 than we did in 2018.



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  #29  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:29 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Switching lanes slightly... I suspect that the higher prices will encourage more people to develop solid Hackintosh builds. I've never even considered going that route in the past but I'll probably be paying more attention to those discussions now.
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  #30  
Old 06-10-2019, 11:26 AM
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Switching lanes slightly... I suspect that the higher prices will encourage more people to develop solid Hackintosh builds. I've never even considered going that route in the past but I'll probably be paying more attention to those discussions now.
HI jim

Keep us posted. Max Yuryev has shared some pretty extensive and detailed builds in the past on YouTube. He also does other reviews on non-hacked Macs.



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